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Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

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Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#521

Post by jandrewrogers »

ericd wrote: post #430
jandrewrogers wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The limited range and inability to refuel quickly and easily in the middle of nowhere remains a critical deficiency for EV trucks in many parts of the US. Range is something you have to be conscious of even with ICE trucks in some areas even though they have better and more reliable range. There are places where I'd start thinking about fuel once I hit half a tank. Getting caught out in the middle of nowhere with a d…

Seems like EV trucks need the ability to do the equivalent of siphoning gas, or carrying some Jerry cans.

That is almost literally the entirety of it. If we could do that, EV would be lit. EV is honestly better for remote environments in most other regards.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#522

Post by dpark »

Qwertious wrote: post #507
dpark wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the batteries are worse in China. How does that affect the range?

They're not worse, China has (arguably) the best batteries in the world. NMC and LFP (of the same cost) are about even, but pricier NMC packs can add maybe 10% more range for the same weight. Which is why most EV companies offer a "long-range version" that's just the same car with an NMC pack swapped in. It's mostly an irrelevant gimmick. The truth is that range isn't limited by batteries, it's limited by weight and…

Thank you. That's interesting. The infographic calls them cheaper which I assumed (incorrectly?) meant worse. 10% does seem gimmicky, though I am seeing claims on a number of sites that NMC is around 50% better per unit of weight (but way worse for longevity), so I don't know what to think.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#523

Post by eucyclos »

vel0city wrote: post #425
eucyclos wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw (and rode in) a lot of them in Alberta (Canada's Texas). Typical day for a work truck: -owner starts you up from the hotel parking lot -3-5 guys get in, you get your morning coffee via a drive through -You pick up a 'slip tank' of diesel (think a metal box with its own fuel pump that sits in the bed and holds about a ton of liquid when full). You might fill up your own tank at the same time, typically on the em…

Yes this is why every other driveway in the zero lot lines of DFW need 1-2 pickup trucks. Totally. This is way more extreme of usage than 99.99% of trucks made will ever see.

I wonder whether it's a nostalgia thing. People rode in these trucks and saw senior guys they admired owning them when they were young and on the make, and now they think that's the kind of truck successful people own even if it's not necessary for their own workday.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#524

Post by ascorbic »

echelon wrote: post #371
HankB99 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A good old ICE car will be cheaper to make than an EV How much of that is the result of the relatively maturity of the technology? We've been continuously improving ICE based transportation for well over a hundred years. It's been a lot shorter for electric vehicles. I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around.

> I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around. After many more billions are spent. Is the American consumer going to eat that cost? The government clearly lost its appetite as it isn't subsidizing EVs anymore. The US has cheap fuel and it isn't a strategic issue to develop EVs except to keep US auto internationally competitive. US consumers are still really into…

The rest of the world is continuing to move to EVs, and while the US has a different taste in vehicles than most of the world, the underlying tech is the same, so they'll benefit from the advances made in Europe and Asia.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#525

Post by Ekaros »

SoftTalker wrote: post #375
exabrial wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people just love them as a symbol This is an unfortunate trope that is oft repeated by those that live their life in constant upgrade cycles. The regular F-150 is a pinnacle of value engineering for Ford. It's infinitely repairable for owners. Look around on the highway, you will see hundreds of 15+ year old F150s on the road, and a few times a day I will see 25+ year old trucks on the road too. There are thousands…

Also, a truck can be used like a car. But a car cannot be used like a truck. If you need to haul 4x8 sheets of plywood or drywall, dimensional lumber, piping, ladders, etc a truck (or work van) is pretty much it. If I could only afford one car it would be a truck.

As European. If you do that stuff semi-regularly just get a trailer. Couple thousand and they last decades.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#526

Post by somenameforme »

qingcharles wrote: post #395
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90% of F-150s are daily driver grocery-getters. That was the target for the Lightning, not truck stuff.

I live in an area that has probably >100% pick-up ownership per adult male. I've noticed that these people will not go to the grocery store on days when the weather is inclement due to the chance of the groceries getting wet. Seems like a bad vehicle for grocery runs.

Almost everything from a grocery store starts in, or ends up, in a water resistant package. There are a handful of exceptions like eggs in cardboard casing, but you can just wrap them in a baggy to solve that. For that matter, unless it's like an insanely torrential downpour, very little, if any, water is going to get through a closed bag.

If your observation is accurate, the more likely reason is that people just don't like going out when it's raining. Getting your shoes/pants wet sucks, getting your car (or truck) seats wet sucks, rain traffic sucks, there's more crashes - which suck, and by contrast you could just be sitting at home enjoying the relaxing sounds of rain, which doesn't suck.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#527

Post by EdwardDiego »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #519
dalyons wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i was assuming the person i was responding to was talking about recreational offroading, not ranching, oiling or mining in the middle of nowhere. A max pack rivian has a 400ml range, which is plenty for the vast majority of recreational adventures.

That’s fair. There are “recreational offroaders” in the sense of urban bros that do casual offroading on well-developed trails with associated infrastructure. That is the nerf version of offroading in the US. Some of those trails are cool on their own merits, I don’t want to take away from them. The US has vast regions that casual tourists never venture into and have no infrastructure that are nonetheless economicall…

I'm from NZ where 640km range is plenty, for even our gnarliest terrain, so I'm stoked. I have to say, this is a bit dismissive out of hand.

> urban bros that do casual offroading on well-developed trails with associated infrastructure.

Yeah, no, that's not what I'm talking about. Not everyone commenting here is from the US.

I'm talking about things like driving up braided riverbeds to places like this, Mathias Hut, just downstream of a glacier or two. [0]

Or like this, Avoca Hut, in an isolated valley two days walk in otherwise. [1]

Or some of the very rugged routes on the West Coast of the South Island / Te Waipounamu. [2]

Trips like this in the Southern Alps. [3]

Or Napoleon Hill. [4]

640km range would get me to that route, from the east side of my island via an alpine pass [5], through the route, and back home again, on one charge, which is awesome.

We don't have the same scale of distance as the USA, that's true, but we have the same scale of challenging terrain, so please don't be so quick to dismiss our use case as "urban bros doing casual offroading", just because the distances are lower, please.

As for well developed 4WD trails, lol.

I used to be a ranger in a national park here, and American tourists were routinely gobsmacked that our tramping (hiking) routes (trails) didn't have bridges, (and also, often didn't have an actual track or trail, you just picked your own way up the riverbed) and you'd have to walk through the rivers - and no, don't take your boots off, because you're going to cross that river another 5 - 10 times, you just have to accept you're going to have wet feet, welcome to NZ hiking.

So if we don't have that many well developed hiking trails, we certainly don't have well-developed off-roading trails.

[0]: https://dea83hfeh03sc.cloudfront.net/media/3171/conversions/...

[1]: https://www.doc.govt.nz/thumbs/hero/contentassets/10442f8efa...

[2]: https://nz4wd.co.nz/article/hard-drive-denniston

[3]: https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/destinations/nz/97642423/brea...

[4]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnZ6dMg4yvs

[5]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Arthur%2...

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#528

Post by [deleted] »

hedgehog wrote: post #150
loeg wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that going to hybrid actually allowed Toyota to significantly simplify their transmissions relative to ICE vehicles, even without going full EV.

The planetary gear "eCVT" systems that Toyota and Ford use in many models are mechanically a lot simpler than a traditional automatic or sequential manual transmission. Few moving parts and no clutches at all. I don't know what the long term reliability of those drivetrains is is but I wouldn't be surprised if it's measurably measurably better than a traditional transmission + engine. There's a long educational video…

[deleted]

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#530

Post by ascorbic »

sroerick wrote: post #319
harpiaharpyja wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm one of those people. What is a work truck used for?

Other replies here have covered 'work truck' better than anything I'd come up with but I'll also add that some of the reasons people purchase trucks is: - To be able to help your friends move. - To be able to purchase supplies and move big things over long distances. - If you raise horses, you have to have a truck to pull your trailer. - If you own a tow behind or fifth wheel, you have to have a truck to pull it. - I…

So, not work then?
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