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Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

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Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#501

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ssl-3 wrote: post #497
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think a F150 lightning is wider than a 1985 Silverado.

It's not the width that's a problem, but the height. Here's a brochure for the first-year F-150 (1984): https://xr793.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/1984-Ford-F-Ser... Have a look at some of the pictures that have people standing next to the truck. They'd be giants if they were able to have that kind of posture next to a modern F150.

Oh, I was a smaller kid back then and I guess I wouldn’t find it very accessible either way. Also my dad was tall. Coolers fit in the back also if you want to use those instead.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#502

Post by dmitrygr »

lallysingh wrote: post #335
smackeyacky wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheaper? Not sure how. While an ICE engine does have cooling systems and fuelling systems, water pumps and fuel pumps are relatively cheap and simple devices. An EV generally has a battery cooling system along with regenerative braking. EVs have roughly the same mechanical things as an ICE vehicle too, HVAC, suspension, brakes, in car entertainment, heated seats. Lighting. An entire 12v subsystem to power all that st…

I don't understand this comparison. An EV's battery cooling system is a cooling system. Regen braking isn't more complicated than an alternator. The rest, yeah. The chemical stacks in the batteries are expensive, and dealer markup was a problem (now they're 47-56k new). But the energy costs! $7-12 for a fill-up on home power overnight instead of $75-85 at the gas station. And maintenance. So little maintenance. For l…

> Regen braking isn't more complicated than an alternator.

Either disingenuous or ill-informed. one is ~1KW for a few seconds a day, the other is > 100KW of power for dozens of seconds, multiple dozens of times a day. completely engineering

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#503

Post by fragmede »

inasio wrote: post #301
class3shock wrote: post #237

The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…

My electrician drives an electric F-150, it's impressive how useful it is for him. The frunk carries a big box of tools, there's tons of outlets to charge his power tool batteries, he can even run a small welder

Yeah the frunk is what makes that thing shine. The cybertruck's frunk is pathetic in comparison.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#504

Post by re-thc »

NetMageSCW wrote: post #471
re-thc wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America has neither the interest nor the capital to chase EVs or force them down American consumer throats. Only if you see the market continue to be dominated by human drivers. We are potentially moving to self-driving cars like Waymo, Tesla etc then they will get the choice to force what car they like. > The government clearly lost its appetite as it isn't subsidizing EVs anymore. More like "the current" governme…

That potentially is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting for fifty to one hundred years.

> for fifty to one hundred years

Ballmer in 2007 also said the iPhone was not going to get any significant market share. It didn't even take close to fifty years, did it?

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#505

Post by fragmede »

dalyons wrote: post #461
bitexploder wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a f150 raptor and a rivian and a model 3. I drive the gas truck and the model 3. Depends on the weather. Truck is an amazing road tripper. We are not the typical customer, but we do exist.

thats like $250k of cars at new prices, yes you're not typical :)

well yeah, but you don't buy them new and all at once

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#506

Post by fragmede »

al_borland wrote: post #290
adrr wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should be cheaper than the F150 but Ford can’t figure out how to make batteries cheaply. Evs are a lot less complex, no gas engine, no transmission, no exhaust systems with hundreds of dollars of precious metal in them. It should be cheaper than a gas equivalent.

This isn’t a Ford problem, it’s a problem for the whole industry. EVs won’t get cheaper until battery tech evolves.

the reason we know American car makers other than Tesla aren't serious about electric cars is that they haven't been making battery factories.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#507

Post by Qwertious »

dpark wrote: post #409
adrr wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China EVs are cheaper than ICE cars. https://www.visualcapitalist.com/why-evs-are-now-cheaper-tha...

Sounds like the batteries are worse in China. How does that affect the range?

They're not worse, China has (arguably) the best batteries in the world.

NMC and LFP (of the same cost) are about even, but pricier NMC packs can add maybe 10% more range for the same weight. Which is why most EV companies offer a "long-range version" that's just the same car with an NMC pack swapped in. It's mostly an irrelevant gimmick.

The truth is that range isn't limited by batteries, it's limited by weight and cost - a bigger battery weighs more, which means the car (frame) needs to support more weight, which means the car (frame) costs more. Most EVs have a range of ~300 miles (~500KM) and any battery gains don't go into extending the range, they go into reducing the weight (and therefore cost) of the car. Lighter frame, fewer battery cells. Because most people don't care past 300miles (500KM). Not enough to pay an extra $5k, at least.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#508

Post by unethical_ban »

iknowstuff wrote: post #394
tw04 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> *They're loaded with useless/barely-functional interior electronics that are poor copies of Tesla Having owned both an EV Ford and a Tesla I can say with absolute certainty that the ford runs circles around the Tesla. Outside of having steam games on the screen, Tesla’s infotainment does literally nothing better, and the interface itself feels like an early 2000s Linux gui. Oh, and Ford actually supports carplay an…

[flagged]

New person to the conversation: I just want to say that even if the CEO's politics weren't awful I would never want a Tesla. I don't want a touchscreen to adjust the direction of the AC. Audio, climate and basic media functions should all have tactile control.

Tesla is to blame for my parents thinking EV = complicated iPad on wheels. An electric drivetrain doesn't have to come with a touchscreen UI for everything.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#509

Post by tirant »

qball wrote: post #483
vel0city wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the situation. ICE also has a massive range hit as well, it's just easy to put a massive fuel tank in to get a stupid amount of range not towing compared to a battery electric that struggles to get a similar range. When you start with almost 600mi losing half isn't too bad, when it's maybe 300mi on a good day and you cut it in half is just not as usable for that usage. That said, if it's not the towin…

Additionally, all ICE cars can charge from 0-100% in under 5 minutes. Even if their towing range was somehow less than an EV, it would matter less because you don't have to spend an hour at a charging station.

With the difference that with an EV you always leave home with a full battery and you never have to step into a gas station unless you have a long trip ahead.

But even when you, the amount of time is not 60minutes. If you have kids, the time to go to the restroom, grab a coffee and come back is usually already around 20min, which tends to be enough to charge from 20-60% or even to 80% in newer vehicles. If you have a meal and take around 40minutes, you are probably already hitting 90% or higher.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#510

Post by bean469 »

hajile wrote: post #63
LUmBULtERA wrote: post #40

I wish if this U.S. administration and U.S. carmakers don't care to promote EVs, that they'd at least let in the Chinese manufacturers that are interested in them.

There have been many demonstrations that F150, cybertruck, and others have short ranges when loaded and even shorter ranges when towing (I saw sub 40 miles on a full charge claimed by some people). If you use your truck as a truck, that’s simply not feasible. If you just use it as expensive transportation, you probably still try to convince yourself by thinking about how you might use it as a truck sometimes and won’…

> There’s not much of a market, so leaving makes sense.

Let's be honest, most people who have trucks don't use them for work and towing

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