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Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

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Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#371

Post by echelon »

HankB99 wrote: post #338
smackeyacky wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheaper? Not sure how. While an ICE engine does have cooling systems and fuelling systems, water pumps and fuel pumps are relatively cheap and simple devices. An EV generally has a battery cooling system along with regenerative braking. EVs have roughly the same mechanical things as an ICE vehicle too, HVAC, suspension, brakes, in car entertainment, heated seats. Lighting. An entire 12v subsystem to power all that st…

> A good old ICE car will be cheaper to make than an EV How much of that is the result of the relatively maturity of the technology? We've been continuously improving ICE based transportation for well over a hundred years. It's been a lot shorter for electric vehicles. I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around.

> I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around.

After many more billions are spent.

Is the American consumer going to eat that cost? The government clearly lost its appetite as it isn't subsidizing EVs anymore.

The US has cheap fuel and it isn't a strategic issue to develop EVs except to keep US auto internationally competitive.

US consumers are still really into big SUVs and trucks and almost all of the models are ICE instead of EVs. The EV manufacturers don't really fit the shape of the American consumer that they haven't already sold to.

China jumped on EVs because they wanted to start an automotive sector for (1) heavy industry, (2) adjacency to national defense, (3) strong new domestic and export market they could corner, (4) it's adjacent to their other manufacturing industries. Critically, they had a deep reservoir of Chinese citizens who were first time car buyers that they could nudge into buying domestic auto. No other nation on earth has the outsized advantage of having such a deep bench of new customers to subsidize a new industry. The stars aligned for China.

America has neither the interest nor the capital to chase EVs or force them down American consumer throats.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#372

Post by bradlys »

delecti wrote: post #83
wagwang wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish my ev has dope perks... too bad California is dead set on making EV charging more expensive then gas lol.

Yeah, I was being a bit glib about that part. IMO, the biggest perk is dependent on the ability to charge at home. If you can, then the price per mile is about half (if Google is right that California rates are about $0.30/kWh) or less than for an ICE. But even if the $/mile were equal, never needing to visit a gas station again is itself the biggest perk. And sure there are people for whom an EV won't meet their ran…

It’s closer to 0.40-0.70c/kwh. My lowest rate is $0.40c/kwh and that goes away insanely fast just doing almost nothing. PGE is criminally priced in CA. I get maybe 200kwh before it jumps to $0.50/kwh rate and will keep jumping.

I don’t have AC. I don’t have anything. That’s just a fridge, computer, and a little bit of cooking. Genuinely have no idea how I even hit 10kwh/day because I have nearly nothing on in this place.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#373

Post by vel0city »

rsync wrote: post #233

We don't want your electric car ... we want your car, but electric . We want an electric F150 or an electric Suburban or v90 wagon or whatever. But instead we get e-initiative i-mobiles. We get TRON-cars. We get iModels. There is a reason for this: The incumbent auto makers understand fully that the ICE version of whatever model they electrify will suffer enormously. They believe that they can somehow retain all of t…

What particularly was overly "electric F-150" versus "F-150 but electric" on the Lightning? When i tested it, and when other reviewers talked about it they generally praised how normal truck like it was compared to even the Rivian R1T.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#374

Post by fsckboy »

HankB99 wrote: post #338
smackeyacky wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheaper? Not sure how. While an ICE engine does have cooling systems and fuelling systems, water pumps and fuel pumps are relatively cheap and simple devices. An EV generally has a battery cooling system along with regenerative braking. EVs have roughly the same mechanical things as an ICE vehicle too, HVAC, suspension, brakes, in car entertainment, heated seats. Lighting. An entire 12v subsystem to power all that st…

> A good old ICE car will be cheaper to make than an EV How much of that is the result of the relatively maturity of the technology? We've been continuously improving ICE based transportation for well over a hundred years. It's been a lot shorter for electric vehicles. I suspect that there are bigger strides to make with electrics that may eventually turn that around.

>How much of that is the result of the relatively maturity of the technology?

that's a real effect though, it's not something something you throw overboard, it's the bouyancy that keeps you from sinking.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#375

Post by SoftTalker »

exabrial wrote: post #231
omnimus wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the biggest issue is that “trucks” like F-150 are actually used because of US tax system that exempts such massive vehicles from emmision taxes because they are work trucks. They are pretty ineffective work vehicles but some people just love them as a symbol. That symbolism goes completely against electric/green vehicles. In other words - people who buy F-150 would never buy electric vehicle and people who are…

> people just love them as a symbol This is an unfortunate trope that is oft repeated by those that live their life in constant upgrade cycles. The regular F-150 is a pinnacle of value engineering for Ford. It's infinitely repairable for owners. Look around on the highway, you will see hundreds of 15+ year old F150s on the road, and a few times a day I will see 25+ year old trucks on the road too. There are thousands…

Also, a truck can be used like a car. But a car cannot be used like a truck. If you need to haul 4x8 sheets of plywood or drywall, dimensional lumber, piping, ladders, etc a truck (or work van) is pretty much it. If I could only afford one car it would be a truck.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#376

Post by bitexploder »

bayesnet wrote: post #277
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90% of F-150s are daily driver grocery-getters. That was the target for the Lightning, not truck stuff.

My hunch is that the people who buy an F-150 for groceries are not the people interested in buying EVs. The advantage of an EV truck is solely on cost and maintenance, so the natural market is businesses looking for practical vehicles, not people who buy impractical vehicles that are costly to operate for status reasons. Then again as I’m typing this I realize that I have a phone with a better processor than most com…

We have a f150 raptor and a rivian and a model 3. I drive the gas truck and the model 3. Depends on the weather. Truck is an amazing road tripper. We are not the typical customer, but we do exist.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#377

Post by dboreham »

shawn_w wrote: post #360
kjkjadksj wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rivians are all over socal. I think there is a lot of demand in certain markets.

See them all the time around the greater Seattle area. The "certain market" is probably lots of extremely well paying jobs.

There are loads of Rivian in southwest Montana. No idea why. Way way more than Teslas.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#378

Post by hnburnsy »

gammarator wrote: post #355
hnburnsy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have heard great things about the Rivian trucks. They seem to have rabidly loyal customers, like the Teslas Dead last... https://www.usatoday.com/story/cars/research/2025/10/24/cons... And have you seen the stories about fender benders? https://www.thedrive.com/news/rivian-r1t-fender-bender-turns... https://axleaddict.com/news/a-small-rivian-r1t-dent-just-cos... https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/7-months-…

Your linked article does say Rivian ranked first in satisfaction, which does support the GP’s “rabidly loyal.”

Nice catch thx!

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#379

Post by ProAm »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #311
class3shock wrote: post #237

The F-150 is in one of the markets I think ev's will take over first (small commercial vehicles) but it just was not the right vehicle to start with. To expensive, even when the tax incentives were still a thing, and Ford suffers from having corrupt dealers taking a large cut on top of that. So you are selling to either the top 5% or bigger businesses. If you are a top 5% buying this you want it to tow your expensive…

Rivians are all over socal. I think there is a lot of demand in certain markets.

Wait until the R2 comes out for ~50% of the cost of an R1. They are the best EV out in terms of features and comfort and usability.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#380

Post by adrr »

smackeyacky wrote: post #286
adrr wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should be cheaper than the F150 but Ford can’t figure out how to make batteries cheaply. Evs are a lot less complex, no gas engine, no transmission, no exhaust systems with hundreds of dollars of precious metal in them. It should be cheaper than a gas equivalent.

Cheaper? Not sure how. While an ICE engine does have cooling systems and fuelling systems, water pumps and fuel pumps are relatively cheap and simple devices. An EV generally has a battery cooling system along with regenerative braking. EVs have roughly the same mechanical things as an ICE vehicle too, HVAC, suspension, brakes, in car entertainment, heated seats. Lighting. An entire 12v subsystem to power all that st…

China EVs are cheaper than ICE cars.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/why-evs-are-now-cheaper-tha...

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