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Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

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Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#101

Post by happyopossum »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #26
oconnore wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was considering getting a Rivian and decided that in fact I would probably not allow the 24 year old dude at my local construction supply co to use a skid steer to drop a load of gravel into the bed of my $75k+ electric vehicle. So instead I got a used Ford F150 (gas) and when the skid steer guy drops gravel into the bed I feel fine.

There is a lot to be said for that perspective. I wonder if any PMs have considered making the bed of the truck a FRU that you can swap out at home.

The bed of more traditional pickups like the F-150 can be swapped out in a couple of hours by one or two dudes with a lift and an impact wrench. Heck, you can buy blank F-250s without a bed at all.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#102

Post by epolanski »

lefstathiou wrote: post #50
LUmBULtERA wrote: post #40

I wish if this U.S. administration and U.S. carmakers don't care to promote EVs, that they'd at least let in the Chinese manufacturers that are interested in them.

I think the issue is that the administration is in an adversarial relationship with China. Risky to allow a foreign power have a kill switch on critical infrastructure.

Cars are not critical infrastructure, also, the idea that China would turn off their EVs or starting to use them as weapons from the other side of the world is borderline absurd.

Occam's razor suggests that the simplest solution is the most probable: they are scared of the competition, because they know that if those cars enter the market they will dominate it.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#103

Post by epolanski »

scottbez1 wrote: post #81
bflesch wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to clarify: We accept the security risk of kill switches in networking equipment, smartphones, laptops, servers, clouds, processors, bluetooth firmware and nvidia driver blobs, but we draw the line at civillian cars? And in contrast to the listed items above, for civillian cars you can choose from dozens of countries who produce them. And if you cannot accept security risk of owning a "kill switch" car then you…

This doesn’t seem that crazy to me - a broadly applicable coordinated OTA zero day applied across cars during US rush hours has the potential to result in likely hundreds of thousands of deaths in a few hours if safety critical systems like airbags can be tampered/inhibited by OTA-capable systems. The scale of car travel plus the inherent kinetic energy involved make a correlated risk particularly likely to lead to a…

Nonsense, if that's the goal the countries are at war and you have to worry about nukes, not your car being switched off.

I'd expect HN crowd to be smarter than nonsense security propaganda, yet it seems to work.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#105

Post by JumpCrisscross »

exabrial wrote: post #43

I expected the "T word" to come out in the article, however this fails to address any of the practical reasons it isn't a good replacement for the value-engineered F-150: * The price isn't right for small businesses. These trucks are quite expensive * They're difficult to repair. A regular F-150 is designed to be repaired; these things are designed like iPhones to be disposable. * Parts availability is scarce, contra…

> They're difficult to repair. A regular F-150 is designed to be repaired; these things are designed like iPhones to be disposable

Is this due to the parts problem?

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#106

Post by m463 »

bdcs wrote: post #79
kerblang wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay are we just saying they just discontinued one electric F150 in favor of another? Meh. Edit: Oh, an EREV is fancy way to say "hybrid" ok

>Oh, an EREV is fancy way to say "hybrid" ok Kind of. EREVs are what locomotives have been doing for a century (and to a lesser extent barges), which is called diesel-electric in that field. I agree the terminology is lacking, but EREVs are quite compelling (and their high market share in China supports consumer demand). Hybrid: * ICE must run during regular operation (except for ~very short distances at ~very slow s…

I wonder about the specs though.

I recall the bmw serial hybrid was called a range extender, because the gas motor couldn't actually put out enough energy to drive the vehicle on the freeway.

So basically it was an EV with a small +xx mile extra range from the gas engine.

so no "ice for road trips", more like "ice for an additional +xx miles" then you need to recharge.

In comparison the chevy volt had a better hybrid design (not a serial hybrid) and you could drive it on gasoline only.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#107

Post by cogman10 »

nixonpjoshua wrote: post #90
bdcs wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Oh, an EREV is fancy way to say "hybrid" ok Kind of. EREVs are what locomotives have been doing for a century (and to a lesser extent barges), which is called diesel-electric in that field. I agree the terminology is lacking, but EREVs are quite compelling (and their high market share in China supports consumer demand). Hybrid: * ICE must run during regular operation (except for ~very short distances at ~very slow s…

I agree EREVs make a lot of sense, electric first but not requiring a full commitment, especially for a truck that sometimes has to do things like towing. https://insideevs.com/news/777407/scout-motors-erev-reservas... I'm sure this wasn't lost on Ford, 80% of Scout reservations come with the EREV and only 20% BEV. Maybe one day they will have enough volume in the segment to justify making the pure BEV version again…

The problem with EREVs is they are more complex than a BEV. More parts to go wrong, to purchase, and ultimately a (potentially) higher price.

The reason to do EREVs for a manufacture is, IMO, primarily because they can't get a hold of batteries for a cheap enough price. And I think that's the weakness of the way Ford has attacked EVs. They haven't (AFAIK) really built out battery plants. As a result, they are at the whims of their supplier for their battery packs.

For a truck like the F150, that's a large pack requirement that probably ultimately likely killed their margins.

Edit OK, they've been working on a plant for the last 5 years, but it looks like they've done almost nothing. Like, literally just have some support structs up.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#108

Post by stonogo »

exabrial wrote: post #43

I expected the "T word" to come out in the article, however this fails to address any of the practical reasons it isn't a good replacement for the value-engineered F-150: * The price isn't right for small businesses. These trucks are quite expensive * They're difficult to repair. A regular F-150 is designed to be repaired; these things are designed like iPhones to be disposable. * Parts availability is scarce, contra…

I feel like many of these comparisons are more applicable to an F-150 of twenty years ago. Modern F-150s start at forty grand, are so hard to repair that the CEO of Ford whines about not having enough mechanics willing to get a PhD in Ford Repair, are absolutely software-constrained to the extent they're legally allowed, and have almost as many cockpit gizmos. The primary difference is the flashy bloat, but the majority of F-150s are sold at trim levels that include such things. Even the lowest-trim fleet F-150 these days is basically a luxury minivan with a bed compared to the models of yesteryear.

My guess is that grid operators are offering more money than carbuyers, with the wild popularity of solar and wind.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#109

Post by happyopossum »

dyauspitr wrote: post #14

That’s too bad, I love my lightning. I spend about $20/month on home charging, love the acceleration and it’s good enough to haul all the things I need for my small farm. Also, it’s great for long distance recreational drives (from a very specific perspective)- I like driving 250-300 miles in a day and then parking at an RV spot for the night instead of a hotel room. I can run the heat and AC all night as well as hav…

Most campgrounds I’ve seen here (Northern California) explicitly say you can’t charge your EV in RV spots.

Re: Ford kills the All-Electric F-150

#110

Post by Teever »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #105
exabrial wrote: post #43

I expected the "T word" to come out in the article, however this fails to address any of the practical reasons it isn't a good replacement for the value-engineered F-150: * The price isn't right for small businesses. These trucks are quite expensive * They're difficult to repair. A regular F-150 is designed to be repaired; these things are designed like iPhones to be disposable. * Parts availability is scarce, contra…

> They're difficult to repair. A regular F-150 is designed to be repaired; these things are designed like iPhones to be disposable Is this due to the parts problem?

Honestly sounds more like a regulation problem to me.

So many companies will not prioritize serviceability unless mandated by law.

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