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Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

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Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m glad it was blocked. Amazon gives law enforcement and ICE access to Ring camera footage. I have no doubt they’d eventually be letting cops spy inside our homes with these vacuum cleaners.

Well, were they handed a valid warrant asking for that footage?

Maybe there's a 3rd option... like encrypt the footage in a way that it can't be accessed en-masse without passwords?

Like imagine if the US government gave a warrant to apple and said "Give us all iphone pictures from this area on this date"... they'd presumably say "We won't because we designed it so that we can't."

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is complacency or is China just accelerating? It's not surprising that China wins in these things. Just go to Shenzhen. Hardware designers, parts, machines that make the parts, factories, etc. are all within driving distance. You can't compete unless you also have offices there, hire Chinese workers, compete in China. American companies need to start designing in China, not just made in China. Ford themselves said…

IMO, the US business industry has become over-financialised to the point of self-sabotage. R&D and capital expenditure are seen as "bad" things to have on accounting statements. Combine this with Jack Welsh type CEOs who do everything they can to cut out "costs" on financial statements and you get organizations like GE turned into (badly run) banks. Cisco is now essentially a publicly traded PE firm that buys up othe…

That's ultimately what you get when you have a system that 1) has most of its money held by the retirement/pension funds of a generation that didn't have enough children to sustain organic domestic economic growth and 2) has incentivized returns to those institutional investors at the board and c-suite levels of most companies.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is the funny thing about it. As an American, I'd much rather a Chinese company have data on me than an American one. The American government and FBI and police don't have access to the Chinese company's data. But with a subpoena (and sometimes just with a friendly ask), they sure do have access to an American company's data. Now if the US is at war with China and you're a politician or in the military, the…

Yeah I think a lot of privacy advocates like to pretend they are some high value target. A nation you don't live in, that has no use for information about you is collecting information on you. What is the problem that wasn't there before? I can at least understand a principled stand of not wanting cloud connected cameras or microphones, but the China hawking is just ludacris.

It really depends. Where I live there is a large Chinese expat community, including many democracy activists from Hong Kong, Falun Gong practitioners, anti-CCP critics, and other expats who left China out of fear of persecution. They do have legitimate reasons to worry about the Chinese government tracking them down[1], and now they have to worry about whether their friends who invite them over for tea have a Roomba at home.

But if you live in an area with little exposure to these communities, I doubt the Chinese government would care about your private information.

But no matter who I am I certainly wouldn't want North Korea to have my private information, because they'd have no qualms about finding ways to use it to empty my bank account.

[1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/chinese-spy-speaks-out-enquete...

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, keep going. Clearly draw the line from “X has access to vacuum cleaner cameras” to “X is extracting money from them.”

You already know this Ryan https://blog.avast.com/what-do-security-cameras-know-about-y... Data brokers love this data, dont play with me I know you better than that https://www.cloaked.com/post/the-data-broker-economy-will-hi...

I don't like this kind of surveillance any more than anyone else on HN, but we get this here all the time. People make these posts that X leads to Y and jump way over the details. Sometimes X does lead to Y. Other times, it's the Underpants Gnomes: There's a big "???" step between X and Y that people don't like to take the time to articulate. This is how conspiracy theories take hold--you ignore the ??? and just assume "Of course X leads to Y! We all know it!"

HN should be above that. When we make a claim that X leads to Y we should be ready to show how X leads to X1, which leads to X2, which leads to X3, which leads to Y.

Almost all articles in the press about data collection and privacy are very poor and only focus on what data gets collected, not how it's used, nor how the circle completes and it comes back to harm the source of that data. To its credit, your second link at least lists a single vague example of how it's used, "data can be misused in ways such as fraudulent insurance claims or fake medical histories" but nothing about how that results in harm to the end user. We should expect better from reporters.

We should expect better from HN though, too. Let's not make conspiratorial claims here. I'm going to call them out, even though I am an opponent of this kind of data collection, too.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blackmail for one: "I'll wage a campaign to flood the Internet with pics of your half dressed wife unless you....". That will work on some people, discovering extramarital affairs, or proving you know intimate details about the inside of someone's house, along with threat of physical violence will work on others. You just need to be sufficiently creative. You can parlay the successes from one target to the next: "I c…

Maybe I'm just not paranoid enough, but when people are having sexy time, they are not really likely to be running the roomba. Having that thing running is the opposite of sexy. When the thing is parked on the base station, it is facing the wall. So exactly how frequently do people think a roomba is running to be capturing all of this explicit footage? To be clear, I'm not saying footage can't be captured, but some o…

https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/12/19/1065306/roomba-i...

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think they want to see the inside of your house, and what do you think they'd be able to do with the information?

Knowing how people live moment to moment is how you can know how to extract money from them

And it's only bad when China does it, not the American company in question. /s

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are not really likely to be running the roomba. You seem to assume that they have somehow physically disabled access to any kind of remote activation. That seems extremely unlikely given the overall selling points of the roomba. The roomba doesn't have to "run" in order to be using its microphone, which as noted is likely the more valuable data acquisition source here.

Maybe read the comment I was replying to before replying with something unrealted? "I'll wage a campaign to flood the Internet with pics of your half dressed wife unless you....". Turning on a microphone is not going to capture the required pics for this blackmail campaign.

Fair. I was combining multiple subthreads when replying, and that wasn't fair.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#550
post #254

According to the Financial Times, Roomba has sold more than 40 million robotic devices, most of them robotic vacuum cleaners.[a] Many of those vacuum cleaners have cameras, can move around on their own, and are connected to the Internet. If they're taken offline, they stop working. Many have microphones too. The new Chinese owner will get control of a network of tens of millions Internet-connected, autonomously mobil…

US-designed iPhones have at least 2 cameras, some microphones, and biometric sensors. From this point, everyone outside the US should stop using iPhones to prevent surveillance from the American empire.

From another angle, the iPhones are primarily made in China AND India via third-party factories, so no one should ever use iPhones any more.

You have the right to concern about privacy, but that's not how it works.

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