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Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

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Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#461

Post by crazygringo »

severino wrote: post #456
jgalt212 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on which nations you care about. How would you feel if Roomba devices were controlled by North Korea, for example?

> How would you feel if Roomba devices were controlled by North Korea, for example? Depends on where you live. If you are living in North Korea and somehow you got to own a Roomba, it would be surely a bad thing. But living in a western country, I would hands down prefer giving all my secrets to the North Korean government instead of my own one.

Yeah, this is the funny thing about it.

As an American, I'd much rather a Chinese company have data on me than an American one.

The American government and FBI and police don't have access to the Chinese company's data. But with a subpoena (and sometimes just with a friendly ask), they sure do have access to an American company's data.

Now if the US is at war with China and you're a politician or in the military, then of course get rid of every device in your home and workplace from China that could be used to spy. But if you're just a normal citizen worried about your government collecting information on you, it seems preferable to stick to foreign companies, like Chinese ones.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#462

Post by olalonde »

btown wrote: post #415
olalonde wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Unless you are a Chinese citizen, it arguably makes more sense to grant access to the Chinese government rather than the US government. The PRC generally shows little interest in non-citizens while the US government frequently goes after people beyond its borders (e.g. Meng Wanzhou, Changpeng Zhao, Sam Bankman-Fried, Julian Assange, Kim Dotcom, etc.).

The general thing about state actors is that they have every incentive to have a dossier of compromising information on every foreign national regardless of current relevance, for potential use in the future. You could, for instance, someday be in a position where you have privileged access to data that becomes relevant to them, and thus your history becomes useful.

True, but the US has a long track record of pursuing both foreigners and citizens—through prosecutions, extraditions, sanctions, or asset seizures—often years later and regardless of nationality. In practical terms, the risk of being targeted by the US for breaking a law is far higher than being blackmailed by a foreign state like China. The consequences are asymmetric as well: blackmail usually amounts to little more than embarrassment, whereas being pursued by the US government can carry lengthy prison sentences or worse.

This is not to mention that the US also engages in data collection for coercion purposes.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#463

Post by tisdadd »

georgeecollins wrote: post #304
cs702 wrote: post #254

According to the Financial Times, Roomba has sold more than 40 million robotic devices, most of them robotic vacuum cleaners.[a] Many of those vacuum cleaners have cameras, can move around on their own, and are connected to the Internet. If they're taken offline, they stop working. Many have microphones too. The new Chinese owner will get control of a network of tens of millions Internet-connected, autonomously mobil…

I worry a lot about privacy in general but its hard for me to figure out the danger posed by my roborock. I suppose it has the floor plans of my house and knows we vacuum on Saturdays. It doesn't seem to know if the object passing by is me or my cat. Yes its on my wifi but so are half a dozen other foreign made gadgets. What is the concern?

I know we have older models for upstairs and down, and saw a newer one with camera at a thrift store. It could have been a different brand, but I saw camera facing up at about 30 degrees and thought to myself, nope. There are reports of it sending revealing pictures I read, and am quite happy that the bump and go ones keep down dust and fur overall. Most of my wifi gadgets have cameras not moving on their own.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#464

Post by symbogra »

miohtama wrote: post #425
fny wrote: post #365

I'm all for antitrust, but it's a shame the Amazon acquisition was blocked.[0] iRobot was in a distressed state then, and immediately laid of 1/3 of staff when the deal fell through. I knew a survivor of that mess. Now this. 0: https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/29/24034201/amazon-irobot-ac... 0: https://archive.is/rBn7z

Elizabeth Warren is proud of blocking this deal: https://www.wsj.com/opinion/amazon-irobot-deal-collapse-room...

That old bat is the enemy of any kind of US technical progress.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#465

Post by yalogin »

How bad were they doing? I thought this is a good time to be in robotics and was actually thinking roomba could be the big beneficiary in the new AI personal robot craze. Very surprising to see they filed for bankruptcy, could they have not just raised private equity with some ai buzzwords?

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#466

Post by moi2388 »

secondcoming wrote: post #290
AlecSchueler wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do American companies have to rely on artificial protections like IP in order to compete? Don't forget it's only "stealing" if you're culturally inclined to see IP as actual property, whereas in China the idea has long been that ideas are common good, even predating Marxism.

R&D is very expensive and you want some protection for having borne that cost. If a competitor can just swoop in and clone your tech then they’re at an immediate, unfair advantage.

Except that you have the technical know how to keep advancing, and have already been producing them before they hit market an have been reverse engineered.

Also a lot of research is already done at, or in cooperation of universities, or with research tax breaks.

Let alone the fact that a lot of patents are absolute bullshit. There are patents on UI elements, even black rubber handles with a hand grip. Not white ones, mind you. It’s insanity and stifles innovation.

But if patents and trademarks and copyright are so incredibly important for innovation, I guess that’s why stuff like math and theoretical physics has the lowest amount of innovation, right?

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#467

Post by infecto »

fullstop wrote: post #392
infecto wrote: post #387

About time. They never iterated and made a better product. All of the roombas end up being bump sensor machines, the mapping is garbage. My $200 Roborock has lidar and works flawlessly compared to my roomba I bought 3 years prior for $700. Sure there is a gap on years but the difference is light years apart.

.. and iRobot _just_ introduced LiDAR, many years too late.

Too late and unless pricing changed too expensive.

I was amazed when I got this Roborock a year ago it was 2-250 on sale via Amazon. Just a vacuum but it has lidar. I remember it mapping the floor and was amazed how well it worked.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#468

Post by gosub100 »

BigTTYGothGF wrote: post #424
kqr wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our household (and I suspect many with us) bought a Roomba specifically to not give the Chinese government a roving camera in our home. Ouch!

Why do you think they want to see the inside of your house, and what do you think they'd be able to do with the information?

Blackmail for one: "I'll wage a campaign to flood the Internet with pics of your half dressed wife unless you....". That will work on some people, discovering extramarital affairs, or proving you know intimate details about the inside of someone's house, along with threat of physical violence will work on others. You just need to be sufficiently creative. You can parlay the successes from one target to the next: "I can get both of you divorced unless you install the rootkit on your work's network"

I will reference a quote I originally heard on HN years ago, though: the audio surveillance is magnitudes more valuable than the video.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#469

Post by rpcope1 »

foobarian wrote: post #357
anymouse123456 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This! I was a very early customer of Roomba and loved them when they came out. I had pets at the time, and the machine would consistently fail in about 14 months. I finally figured out that I needed to buy them from Costco, so that I could get them replaced. Rather than taking their lead and improving the product, they just sat there with the exact same product for like 10+ years. It was outrageous. I guess Rodney Br…

The promise didn't pan out for us. You have to prepare and cordon off the floor, and the unit gets stuck half the time. Somehow it's exactly the right height to get wedged under furniture.

My wife got one to try and automate away the vacuuming. We went through the same thing, and it still needs to be babysit anyways. For the sheer amount of time and frustration of basically all robot vacuums, it has been easier to just get a nice Kenmore upright bagged vacuum and do it yourself anyways (and the results are basically always way nicer).

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#470

Post by Ylpertnodi »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #292
cs702 wrote: post #254

According to the Financial Times, Roomba has sold more than 40 million robotic devices, most of them robotic vacuum cleaners.[a] Many of those vacuum cleaners have cameras, can move around on their own, and are connected to the Internet. If they're taken offline, they stop working. Many have microphones too. The new Chinese owner will get control of a network of tens of millions Internet-connected, autonomously mobil…

What is the significance to you in just a change of owner here? Relative to the situation already?

Not gp, but more and more euroheads much prefer China over [current] USA.
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