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Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

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Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#271

Post by ZeroGravitas »

anomaly_ wrote: post #256
typewithrhythm wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every category I can think of where China is near-first there is some international manufacturer that has a better product. Several areas where there are much higher volumes or outstandingly better value though. Things like automotive lidar, construction assemblys (like double glazed window units), consumer electronics like quadcopters.

I recently bought a handheld spectrophotometer for work (color assessment). The product from the leading US company (X-Rite) is ~US$15k in my market. I bought the Chinese equivalent for US$3k. Maybe if I needed guaranteed nine 9s of colour accuracy the US product would be worth it, but for 95% of users in the market, the Chinese product is more than fine.

I have a vague theory that China's massive home market of poorer people keeps the innovation going. There's always an upside for making something 1% cheaper and simpler as more people can buy it.

That gets mocked by rich people in rich countries in the short term but then leads to disruptive innovation from below, cheaper, simpler items growing and eating the market.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#272

Post by renewiltord »

tacker2000 wrote: post #118
renewiltord wrote: post #100

Another success for EU antitrust law. By blocking an acquisition, they have allowed a bankruptcy purchase by a Chinese firm so that the market is between a few Chinese firms.

The US FTC was also against the merger.

We are forever in debt to Lina Khan as well for this success. Clearly an action of great regulatory foresight.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#273

Post by bhouston »

cs702 wrote: post #254

According to the Financial Times, Roomba has sold more than 40 million robotic devices, most of them robotic vacuum cleaners.[a] Many of those vacuum cleaners have cameras, can move around on their own, and are connected to the Internet. If they're taken offline, they stop working. Many have microphones too. The new Chinese owner will get control of a network of tens of millions Internet-connected, autonomously mobil…

Definitely not all live and functioning. In fact I suspect less than 10m are actively used. It is a company that has been around for years and it has run into sales issues that last few years with competition and their products have tech product lifespans of around 3 years I suspect.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#274

Post by zdragnar »

p0pularopinion wrote: post #188
devsda wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people like to say that it is American companies that innovate and Chinese companies just copies. This may be true in certain areas, but I think some Chinese companies do take the idea and then they iterate on the product to the point that it outshines the original product all while the original company refuses to act. Sure there are initial product R&D cost overheads but I don't believe that's the only reason…

I generally think both attitudes are a too simplistic look. Basically, the most common pattern with „commodity“ tech seems to be like this. Western companies go ahead and expend a lot of R&D to establish a new market or validate a market need. Chinese companies go ahead and flood the market with slighly worse but significantly cheaper versions of said product (often forcing the „inventor“ company to take a significan…

Western politicians did it to us. China was allowed into the WTO but never held to any of the rules.

It is still treated with kid gloves by governments as if it were a developing country despite the fact that it hasn't needed such treatment for decades.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#275

Post by PetitPrince »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #170
furyg3 wrote: post #136

Are there any good robo-vacuum cleaners that will still clean your floor if the internet is down? I've had my Miele vacuum cleaner for 15 years now, and I bought it second hand. I can still buy bags and filters for it, and when the floor roller piece broke (something heavy fell on it) I was able to buy a replacement one for cheap. I see no reason why it can't go another 10 years. It feels like a very low probability…

Had a Neato Botvac D7 for many years, works completely offline and it's cleaning route is pretty smart using lidar. Can't vouch for their newer models just because this one has worked so well for years.

My D7 lost its mapping capability (including markerless no go zone) a few weeks ago due to the new owner pulling the plug early on their server. An enthusiast is jerry rigging an offline solution thanks to a vuln in an earlier firmware, but for those unwilling to solder an esp32 to the debug port of their vacuum they essential got a lesser robot overnight.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#276

Post by p0pularopinion »

baq wrote: post #229
mlrtime wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes sense, are there any expamples of the Chinese leading in a market + R&D yet?

Bambu wasn't good enough? Perhaps BEVs are?

BEVs most certainly aren‘t. Chinese EVs are strongly competing on price. Based on my own experience with them (n=4). They are very good as a EV, solid as a rolling smartphone, but not leading as being a car. Given the choice, I still would prefer a BMW EV any day.

However, batteries as a commodity are a good example where china is leading as volume and R&D leader

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#277

Post by djmips »

LightBug1 wrote: post #186
devsda wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people like to say that it is American companies that innovate and Chinese companies just copies. This may be true in certain areas, but I think some Chinese companies do take the idea and then they iterate on the product to the point that it outshines the original product all while the original company refuses to act. Sure there are initial product R&D cost overheads but I don't believe that's the only reason…

Yeah, "Chinese companies just copies" was 10-15 years or beyond. No way is that relevant now. I've been wondering about why this is. With no evidence, I wondered if one of the reasons is the long term result of the many design and engineering graduates (I notice an incredible amount in the industry I work in) who were educated in the "best western uni's" and have now returned home and grown up. They were a honeypot f…

I feel like there is a hypothesis that open source and open science has helped the West but the IP laws have slowed innovation whereas China is kind of an open source culture internally which confera an advantage.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#278

Post by zdragnar »

LightBug1 wrote: post #186
devsda wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people like to say that it is American companies that innovate and Chinese companies just copies. This may be true in certain areas, but I think some Chinese companies do take the idea and then they iterate on the product to the point that it outshines the original product all while the original company refuses to act. Sure there are initial product R&D cost overheads but I don't believe that's the only reason…

Yeah, "Chinese companies just copies" was 10-15 years or beyond. No way is that relevant now. I've been wondering about why this is. With no evidence, I wondered if one of the reasons is the long term result of the many design and engineering graduates (I notice an incredible amount in the industry I work in) who were educated in the "best western uni's" and have now returned home and grown up. They were a honeypot f…

It is definitely still relevant. A friend showed me two products- one from a US manufacturing company he worked for, and one on alibaba- that were practically identical. One was designed and developed, the other an illegal rip off.

The lack of WTO rule enforcement has always been a problem.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#280

Post by p0pularopinion »

mlrtime wrote: post #206
p0pularopinion wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally think both attitudes are a too simplistic look. Basically, the most common pattern with „commodity“ tech seems to be like this. Western companies go ahead and expend a lot of R&D to establish a new market or validate a market need. Chinese companies go ahead and flood the market with slighly worse but significantly cheaper versions of said product (often forcing the „inventor“ company to take a significan…

That makes sense, are there any expamples of the Chinese leading in a market + R&D yet?

DJI as consumer and professional drones seems like they‘re most certainly they are also an R&D leader given the fact that there are essentially 0 western competitors.

When it comes to more commodity tech, batteries immediately come to mind. Chins has spent years funding battery research and they are now the biggest supplier for LiIon batteries of basically all kinds. Solar panels seem like another example.

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