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Today's XKCD: Microsoft

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Re: Today's XKCD: Microsoft

#41

Post by randomdata »

soapdog wrote: post #4
pif wrote: post #2

As far as I understand, the problem with MS was that they tried and used their strength in the OS market to gain an advantage in the browser market. What similar cross-market unfair competition are Facebook, Google and Apple blamed for?

Apple doesn't allow third party browsers using their own renderers in their iOS devices.

My third-party iOS browser uses its own renderer and they don't seem to have issues with it. However, it is designed for niche cases and does not implement the full W3C spec., so I guess that is what they really have issues with?

Re: Today's XKCD: Microsoft

#42

Post by ps2000 »

streptomycin wrote: post #33
ps2000 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I didn't overlook something it only states something about hardware market shares. Which are much easier to measure than software market share. (Although even in the hw market shares there might be a significant uncertainty due to DYI built computers which were quite common during the 90s.)

By the mid to late 90s, I don't think DIY computers would have made much of a dent compared to prebuilt computers, especially since most of them would have ended up running Windows. I wasn't able to find web usage stats that are very old. http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/os_marketshar... is the oldest usage-based data I could find, which puts Windows up at around 97% in 2005. I can't imagine it was much…

During this time I still went to school and half of my friends had self-build computers. The other half had computer from very small shops.

And this was also a time when none-Linux Unixes were still still popular, so I would expect some share from them. Linux got a lot of momentum around '98. (Yes, and Macs existed too.) Moreover there was OS/2, BeOS, Irix and whatever... Linux however lost a lot of momentum in the early 2000s when people realized it sucks as a Desktop OS for non-geeks.

90% is well possible I think, but 98%? Never ever.

Re: Today's XKCD: Microsoft

#43

Post by adjwilli »

Why does everyone think this is about Apple? It's possible the comic is referring to Google's monopoly of web searches.

My guess would be he's criticizing "monopoly as dangerous" accusations in general as silly since Microsoft has fallen so far. But that's kind of a poor argument since Microsoft was punished for monopolistic practices, both de jure and de facto.

This really isn't XKCD's best comic and it's not even funny.

Re: Today's XKCD: Microsoft

#44

Post by streptomycin »

ps2000 wrote: post #42
streptomycin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the mid to late 90s, I don't think DIY computers would have made much of a dent compared to prebuilt computers, especially since most of them would have ended up running Windows. I wasn't able to find web usage stats that are very old. http://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/os_marketshar... is the oldest usage-based data I could find, which puts Windows up at around 97% in 2005. I can't imagine it was much…

During this time I still went to school and half of my friends had self-build computers. The other half had computer from very small shops. And this was also a time when none-Linux Unixes were still still popular, so I would expect some share from them. Linux got a lot of momentum around '98. (Yes, and Macs existed too.) Moreover there was OS/2, BeOS, Irix and whatever... Linux however lost a lot of momentum in the e…

Well, I linked to some data showing it up around 97%-98%. If you think OS/2, BeOS, Irix, or something else was making a significant dent in the late 90s OS market, then... well, frankly I don't know what to say to something so ridiculous.

Re: Today's XKCD: Microsoft

#45

Post by chris_wot »

lttlrck wrote: post #32
InclinedPlane wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are legality and morality interchangeable?

Is morality a foundation of capitalism?

Depends who you ask. Milton Friedman argued that capitalism cannot be seperated from freedom as

"[e]conomic arrangements play a dual role in the promotion of a free society. On the one hand, freedom in economic arrangements is itself a component of freedom broadly understood, so economic freedom is an end in itself. In the second place, economic freedom is also an indispensable means toward the achievement of political freedom." [1]

On the other hand, Karl Marx saw capitalism as dividing society into the haves and have nots - the haves being the bourgouise with all the wealth, and the have nots being the proleteriat who had none of the wealth. Marx, obviously, was not a fan.

1. https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/ipe/friedman.htm

Re: Today's XKCD: Microsoft

#46

Post by Digit-Al »

adjwilli wrote: post #43

Why does everyone think this is about Apple? It's possible the comic is referring to Google's monopoly of web searches. My guess would be he's criticizing "monopoly as dangerous" accusations in general as silly since Microsoft has fallen so far. But that's kind of a poor argument since Microsoft was punished for monopolistic practices, both de jure and de facto. This really isn't XKCD's best comic and it's not even f…

The "alt" text reads: Facebook, Apple, and Google all got away with their monopolist power grabs because they don't have any 'S's in their names for critics to snarkily replace with '$'s.

So it is partially about Apple.

Re: Today's XKCD: Microsoft

#47

Post by nullsub »

the discussion here is weird. isn't this obviously about the across-the-board practice of bundling browsers with OSes, which is the rule in mobile OS and is culminating in Chrome OS?

Re: Today's XKCD: Microsoft

#48

Post by chj »

adjwilli wrote: post #43

Why does everyone think this is about Apple? It's possible the comic is referring to Google's monopoly of web searches. My guess would be he's criticizing "monopoly as dangerous" accusations in general as silly since Microsoft has fallen so far. But that's kind of a poor argument since Microsoft was punished for monopolistic practices, both de jure and de facto. This really isn't XKCD's best comic and it's not even f…

Comparing to what Apple is doing right now and what MS is going to do with their WinRT, bundling browser is nothing.

Re: Today's XKCD: Microsoft

#49

Post by sjs382 »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #11
streptomycin wrote: post #7

This is silly. Microsoft was a monopoly with 98% of the OS market who was trying to use that monopoly to force their competitors out of business. Remind me again, what company am I supposed to believe is doing that today? Near 100% market share and uncompetitive practices? This comic seems like the opposite of http://xkcd.com/774/ - it's trendy to ignore the abuses of Microsoft in the 90s, or to paint some false equi…

Let's see, are there any important markets out there today where a company has a monopoly? Well, there's the tablet market I guess, where Apple has 95% marketshare. But that's merely a $40 billion a year business with a 70% year over year growth rate so it's not really worth considering, right? And as we all know Apple would never use strong arm tactics like excessive patent litigation to try to hamstring its competi…

I'd say that both Apple and Google both have monopolies over app sales within their ecosystems. And at least one of them seems to be abusing this monopoly power.

Re: Today's XKCD: Microsoft

#50

Post by chj »

streptomycin wrote: post #7

This is silly. Microsoft was a monopoly with 98% of the OS market who was trying to use that monopoly to force their competitors out of business. Remind me again, what company am I supposed to believe is doing that today? Near 100% market share and uncompetitive practices? This comic seems like the opposite of http://xkcd.com/774/ - it's trendy to ignore the abuses of Microsoft in the 90s, or to paint some false equi…

This is silly.

Apple is a monopoly with 100% of the iOS market and use that monopoly to shut any potential competitor out of the market. Can you buy ebooks from Amazon from Kindle app? No. Can you have a true Firefox browser on iOS? No. Can you buy apps directly from developers? No.

What ever Microsoft did in 90s, is nowhere near as bad as Apple today.

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