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Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

nytimes.com

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Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#21

Post by brightball »

adfm wrote: post #8

I’ve noticed some of these kids can’t tell time on analog clocks nor read cursive handwriting.

Analog clocks are interesting in that they exercise your brain when you read them. You have to do calculation (what is the number system for each hand), spatial reasoning (where is each hand) and categorization (what is each hand).

There’s a program called Arrowsmith that has a summer program called the Cognitive Intensive Program. It’s basically 3-4 hours a day of speed reading analog clock for 7 weeks. You start out at 2 handed and work up to 8 handed.

Changed my son’s life. He was a completely different student afterwards, for the better.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#22

Post by gambiting »

thrwaway55 wrote: post #19
lucyjojo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't write. people don't write in cursive around you?

Why would you write in cursive? If you care about WPM key board toasts it. If you care about handwritten your receiver cares they got your letter at all not that it's cursive or not. Cursive is an outdated skill for when it was the fastest way to get words written to paper.

>>Why would you write in cursive?

I'm confused. How do you write if not in cursive? Do you just write in block capitals? With each letter on its own? Do you just not hand write anymore?

>>Cursive is an outdated skill for when it was the fastest way to get words written to paper.

But....It still is? Without using some kind of machine of course.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#23

Post by djoldman »

robcohen wrote: post #6

It just seems to me that the entire purpose of school is not clear. What precisely is the purpose of "English" class? What? To read and speak English? Ok, then why can't kids test out of it most of the time? Is the purpose to be knowledgeable about a canon of literature? Why can't people test against that? The truth is that pedagogy and instruction is just a lazy way of providing childcare. So who cares what they do…

In the USA, you can test out of it: the GED.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#24

Post by brightball »

kevmo314 wrote: post #11
adfm wrote: post #8

I’ve noticed some of these kids can’t tell time on analog clocks nor read cursive handwriting.

Aside from signatures, which don't need to be read, I don't remember the last time I've seen cursive outside of an elementary school.

Something really cool about reading the Declaration of Independence.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#25

Post by bsder »

robcohen wrote: post #6

It just seems to me that the entire purpose of school is not clear. What precisely is the purpose of "English" class? What? To read and speak English? Ok, then why can't kids test out of it most of the time? Is the purpose to be knowledgeable about a canon of literature? Why can't people test against that? The truth is that pedagogy and instruction is just a lazy way of providing childcare. So who cares what they do…

> To read and speak English? Ok, then why can't kids test out of it most of the time? Is the purpose to be knowledgeable about a canon of literature? Why can't people test against that?

Because people VASTLY overestimate their ability with their native language or their command of native language literature.

The SAT English Achievement tests used to absolutely obliterate even students who got good AP English scores. This isn't limited to English--even native Japanese speakers struggle with the advanced JLPT levels, for example. Grammar is hard, yo.

If you don't actively study your native language, your working vocabulary is quite small and your grammatical constructs are excessively simple.

As for shared literature, we were in front of what was claimed to be the house of Jonathan Swift with a bus full of tourists from various English-speaking countries, and the tour guide cracked a joke about "A Modest Proposal". I snickered a bit but didn't think much else. The tour guide pulled me aside later that I was the first person to get the joke and it was almost the end of the year--we're talking hundreds to thousands of people from the US, Australia, India, etc.

I mean, just ask someone to name three main characters and what they did in the last book they read. Most people will struggle. You need to spend some discussion time in order to affix a book into your memory.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#26

Post by miltonlost »

robcohen wrote: post #6

It just seems to me that the entire purpose of school is not clear. What precisely is the purpose of "English" class? What? To read and speak English? Ok, then why can't kids test out of it most of the time? Is the purpose to be knowledgeable about a canon of literature? Why can't people test against that? The truth is that pedagogy and instruction is just a lazy way of providing childcare. So who cares what they do…

> To read and speak English?

And how are you, right now, communicating? You're writing in English. Grammar, spelling, punctuation, all written down, is its own subject that people aren't born knowing or can acquire like they can speak.

In addition, it's English Literature and Language in the same, so yes, about knowing partly a canon, but how how to interpret texts, both nonfictional and fictional and poetic.

> It just seems to me that the entire purpose of school is not clear.

I don't know how to explain to you why it's important to educate humanity.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#27

Post by Telaneo »

tekla wrote: post #17
robcohen wrote: post #6

It just seems to me that the entire purpose of school is not clear. What precisely is the purpose of "English" class? What? To read and speak English? Ok, then why can't kids test out of it most of the time? Is the purpose to be knowledgeable about a canon of literature? Why can't people test against that? The truth is that pedagogy and instruction is just a lazy way of providing childcare. So who cares what they do…

> Ok, then why can't kids test out of it most of the time Because they can't read or write, and neither can most adults, including developers.

I agree that that's its purpose, but the fact that there are many adults who are as bad at reading and writing as there are just goes to show how bad the classes are at actually teaching what they're trying to teach.

That said, maths aren't much different. Being bad at maths is a cultural marker of sorts, since many maths classes are very bad indeed at teaching much beyond basic addition and subtraction.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#28

Post by Natsu »

thrwaway55 wrote: post #19
lucyjojo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't write. people don't write in cursive around you?

Why would you write in cursive? If you care about WPM key board toasts it. If you care about handwritten your receiver cares they got your letter at all not that it's cursive or not. Cursive is an outdated skill for when it was the fastest way to get words written to paper.

> Why would you write in cursive?

Anyone using paper + pen? Writing a letter or thank you note?

You know, stuff only people who grew up before the internet was popular still do.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#29

Post by doubled112 »

gambiting wrote: post #22
thrwaway55 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you write in cursive? If you care about WPM key board toasts it. If you care about handwritten your receiver cares they got your letter at all not that it's cursive or not. Cursive is an outdated skill for when it was the fastest way to get words written to paper.

>>Why would you write in cursive? I'm confused. How do you write if not in cursive? Do you just write in block capitals? With each letter on its own? Do you just not hand write anymore? >>Cursive is an outdated skill for when it was the fastest way to get words written to paper. But....It still is? Without using some kind of machine of course.

I’m not sure the last time I’ve handwritten anything longer than a signature and my cursive skills show it.

On a white board or diagram, block letters seem like the most legible choice.

Everything else is typed.

Re: Kids Rarely Read Whole Books Anymore. Even in English Class

#30

Post by shoobiedoo »

thrwaway55 wrote: post #19
lucyjojo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't write. people don't write in cursive around you?

Why would you write in cursive? If you care about WPM key board toasts it. If you care about handwritten your receiver cares they got your letter at all not that it's cursive or not. Cursive is an outdated skill for when it was the fastest way to get words written to paper.

okay, but if you care about recall and activating regions of the brain that create a better understanding of what you're learning, handwriting wins according to research.
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