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Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

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Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#301

Post by baubino »

sapphicsnail wrote: post #161
Animats wrote: post #111

Funny how the "story" doesn't link to the announcement it mostly copied from the CWA.[1] Here's the link to the union organizing page.[2] No draft union contract for Id, though. Interestingly, this is an industrial ("wall to wall") union, rather than a craft union such as The Animation Guild. IATSE Local 839, in Hollywood. TAG only represents specific jobs, mostly animation artists. A key point in TAG contracts is ho…

Would you mind explaining the difference between industrial vs trade union? Would something like the janitorial staff of a building owned by a gaming company be covered in an industrial union?

Industrial unions organize by shop; craft unions organize by trade. Industrial unions have much greater leverage because they can (theoretically) change conditions for the entire workplace, not just for one group of workers in the workplace. Historically, this meant, for example, organizing everyone in the auto factory in one union as “auto workers” instead of having machinists in one union, engravers in another union, mechanics in another, etc.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#302

Post by an_cap »

tuveson wrote: post #299
an_cap wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point me to a capitalist who wants to expand the category of workers without the right to switch jobs?

Sure, anyone who tries to get you to sign one of these: https://www.npr.org/2018/07/10/627682297/regulators-investig...

Nice motte and bailey there between "people who can be deported if they complain about their working conditions" and non-compete clauses.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#303

Post by esseph »

esseph wrote: post #24
natebc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their ops teams are probably ground into dust.

Trying to keep alive 30yr old tech stacks and still pass security reviews, while doing stuff like manually compiling and packaging python 2 and jre6 tools. Ouch.

(sorry, replied to wrong comment!)

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#304

Post by Izkata »

overfeed wrote: post #294
appreciatorBus wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> somewhere on the spectrum between "egalitarian, flat organization Utopia" and "Slavery" I didn't say that collective ruin was a result of unionism, only that that you appeared to be trying illustrate a point by outlining a broad spectrum of outcomes, but IMO you forgot one common outcome of forced collectivization. Where it belongs on that spectrum can be debated but that it's a common outcome cannot be.

I provided a range of leader:worker income/power ratios from 1:0 to 1:1 with no commentary whatsoever on outcomes, because my entire point is that the outcome doesn't matter: at some threshold value and below, the existence of the org itself is immoral. We don't have to agree on where that point is, but its existence shouldn't be up for debate, IMO. I hope we can all agree that a slave plantation should not exist in…

> I provided a range of leader:worker income/power ratios from 1:0 to 1:1 with no commentary whatsoever on outcomes

For a slight perspective change, the thing that leads to what they mentioned: They're saying you forgot about the range 1:1 to 0:1.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#305

Post by khannn »

ge96 wrote: post #48
khannn wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the video game industry from an insider perspective, but is it wise for id Software to unionize after Doom: The Dark Ages didn't do as well as Eternal? I haven't spoken to anyone who mentioned D:TDA IRL, but knew a fair amount of people who preordered Eternal.

TDA was so good timing the parrying. Eternal too, once you play these games the other games are slow in comparison imo.

I'm not a fan of parrying in any game and mentally put Eternal into the "Wait for cheap Steam sale" pile when I saw the shield. I wanna rip and tear in Doom.

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#306

Post by tuveson »

an_cap wrote: post #302
tuveson wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, anyone who tries to get you to sign one of these: https://www.npr.org/2018/07/10/627682297/regulators-investig...

Nice motte and bailey there between "people who can be deported if they complain about their working conditions" and non-compete clauses.

You were the one who changed subject to be about “switching jobs”, presumably because that issue has less to do why companies want to hire non-citizens in the US. Up until that point we were talking about employees advocating for rights at their current jobs, which is the main thing undocumented workers or people on work visas have to worry about. You were clearly trying to go for the “just change jobs if you don’t like your employer” thing, which is why you changed the subject (and then accused me of doing that, for some weird reason).

Anyway, two for the price of one, since you’re demanding it: https://www.adhrb.org/2025/02/discrimination-against-migrant...

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#307

Post by [deleted] »

mrsilencedogood wrote: post #7
nitwit005 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a factory, the owner has to deal with the cost of all the late or canceled deliveries. With farms, the crops wither on the vines. There's not really an equivalent with most service industries. Software engineers don't even need to be around for the programs to keep running.

"Software engineers don't even need to be around for the programs to keep running." Can you tell me where you work, and are you hiring???

[deleted]

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#308

Post by mlrtime »

nix0n wrote: post #195
Alupis wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Union is a business too - and it's product is the labor of it's members. Always follow the money - there's no free lunch. The Union negotiates incremental raises not because it is righteous and just - no, it negotiates incremental raises because the Union wants more revenue. Sometimes the goals of a Union and it's members align - but often they do not. Unions get a lot of free positive PR, but in modern times the…

> We used to have 12-16+ hour workdays, no days off, etc. None of that is true anymore - the great battles have been fought and won, and nobody is going back. The 8 hour workday is not guaranteed to office workers anymore. See HN discussion of 996: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45149049

I'd like to see the median wage+benefits of the '996' worker vs the median.

I think unions have a place in the lowest margins , but not the 996 tech worker making 2x median salary (my assumption).

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#309

Post by mlrtime »

nickthegreek wrote: post #114
appreciatorBus wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees being paid less than they would prefer to get paid for a given type of work does not imply "unfair exploitation"

Pay is a but a single way in which an employer can attempt to unfairly exploit you. The rest tends to hide behind culture and opportunity . Unpaid overtime framed as dedication, scope creep framed as growth, on-call expectations framed as ownership, understaffing framed as efficiency. You might find these game developers being abused by a few or all of these examples. Exploitive companies can borrow against your prid…

Do you think Salaried software devs should have overtime? Even if paid well (multiples of median salaries across industries).

Re: Id Software devs form "wall-to-wall" union

#310

Post by mlrtime »

vkou wrote: post #278
seneca wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's just a market reaching equilibrium. It's always weird how employees are forever to be expected to be at the mercy of market forces much greater than they are, while employers have to be shielded from them. It's not a market, at all. It's only possible because of federal law that prevents a business from firing employees for unionizing. If it were a market, the business would have to choose to keep unionzed wor…

That argument is bullshit, and I'll tell you why. An employer can't fire people for unionizing, but there's no law that requires them to accept a union's negotiating demands ... Or prevents them from bringing in scabs if the union chooses to strike without pay. The existence of a union by itself doesn't do anything . The only power that a union actually has is not showing up to work. And when the union doesn't show u…

>no law that requires them to accept a union's negotiating demands

And there shouldn't be

>Or prevents them from bringing in scabs if the union chooses to strike without pay.

The company should have this right.

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