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Using secondary school maths to demystify AI

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Re: Using secondary school maths to demystify AI

#101
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple decades of chess programs nods knowingly: "First time?"

A couple decades of chess programs nods knowingly: "First time?" Uh huh. Good luck getting Stockfish to do your math homework while Leela works on your next waifu. LLMs play chess poorly. Chess engines do nothing else at all. That's kind of a big difference, wouldn't you say?

Terr_ was agreeing with you and highlighting how old the debate is.

Re: Using secondary school maths to demystify AI

#102
post #2
post #190

[stub for offtopicness] (in this case, thinkiness)

I love the idea of educating students on the math behind AI to demystify them. But I think it's a little weird to assert "AI is not magic and AI systems do not think. It’s just maths." Equivalent statements could be made about how human brains are not magic, just biology - yet I think we still think.

Yeah. This whole AI situation has really exposed how bad most people are at considering the ontological and semantic content of the words they use.

Re: Using secondary school maths to demystify AI

#104
post #2

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the idea of educating students on the math behind AI to demystify them. But I think it's a little weird to assert "AI is not magic and AI systems do not think. It’s just maths." Equivalent statements could be made about how human brains are not magic, just biology - yet I think we still think.

Yeah. This whole AI situation has really exposed how bad most people are at considering the ontological and semantic content of the words they use.

Lot's of assumptions about humanity and how unique we are constantly get paraded in this conversation. Ironically, the people who tout those perspectives are the least likely to understand why we're really not all that "special" from a very factual and academic perspective.

You'd think it would unlock certain concepts for this class of people, but ironically, they seem unable to digest the information and update their context.

Re: Using secondary school maths to demystify AI

#105
post #96
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason to believe this to be the case. Godel says otherwise.

Please explain, because this interpetation of "Godel" is highly nonstandard.

you may consider reading I am a strange loop for that, which can do far better justification than myself

if there's surely no algo to solve the halting problem, why would there be maths that describes consciousness?

Re: Using secondary school maths to demystify AI

#106
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Equivalent statements could be made about how human brains are not magic, just biology - yet I think we still think. They're not equivalent at all because the AI is by no means biological. "It's just maths" could maybe be applied to humans but this is backed entirely by supposition and would ultimately just be an assumption of its own conclusion - that human brains work on the same underlying principles as AI becaus…

Well, a better retort would be "Human brains are not magic, just physics. Protons, neutrons and electrons don't think". But I think most people get what GP means.

Until you can define what thinking is, you can't assert that particles don't think (panpsychism).

Re: Using secondary school maths to demystify AI

#108
post #2
post #190

[stub for offtopicness] (in this case, thinkiness)

I love the idea of educating students on the math behind AI to demystify them. But I think it's a little weird to assert "AI is not magic and AI systems do not think. It’s just maths." Equivalent statements could be made about how human brains are not magic, just biology - yet I think we still think.

A college level approach could look at the line between Math/Science/Physics and Philosophy. One thing from the article that stood out to me was that the introduction to their approach started with a problem about classifying a traffic light. Is it red or green?

But the accompanying XY plot showed samples that overlapped or at least were ambiguous. I immediately lost a lot of my interest in their approach, because traffic lights by design are very clearly red, or green. There aren't mauve or taupe lights that the local populace laughs at and says, "yes, that's mostly red."

I like the idea of studying math by using ML examples. I'm guessing this is a first step and future education will have better examples to learn from.

Re: Using secondary school maths to demystify AI

#109
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone asserts, almost religiously, that LLMs do and/or can "think." When asked how to falsify their assertion, perhaps by explaining what exactly is "thinking" in the human brain that can and/or will be possible to emulate...

Or they just point to the turing test which was the defacto standard test for something so nebulous. And behold: LLM can pass the turing test. So they think. Can you come up with something better (than the turing test)?

But the Turing test (which I concede, LLMs do pass) doesn't test if some system is thinking; it tests if the system can convince an unbiased observer that it is thinking. I cannot come up with a better "is this thing thinking" test, but that doesn't mean that such a test can't exist; I'm sure there are much smarter people then me trying to solve this problem.

Re: Using secondary school maths to demystify AI

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it comes to the correct answer I don't particularly care how it got there.

In most cases, you don’t know if it came to the correct answer.

In every reasonable use case for LLMs verifying the answer is trivial. Does the code do what I wanted it to? Does it link to a source that corroborates the response?

If you're asking for things you can't easily verify you're barking up the wrong tree.

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