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Incomplete list of mistakes in the design of CSS

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Re: Incomplete list of mistakes in the design of CSS

#21
post #4

I'd like to propose for the list: Default heading styles should not have equal top and bottom margin. Headings should be closer to the content they label than to the content they are setting their content apart from. h1, h2, h3 should not have different styles. it's an anti-pattern that leads to broken accessibility

That's sensible, but I think default styles for specific elements are not part of the CSS standard, and are instead dictated by the user-agent stylesheet of your browser.

Re: Incomplete list of mistakes in the design of CSS

#22

I will never understand the bizarre scene of the web's smug collective declaration that tables were dead and not to be used juxtaposed against the years it took to regain the ability to reliably center things. Assuming one agrees that we even did regain it. Related: I also love when I can't paste tabular data into Excel/etc. anymore For the record, I don't hate the idea of stylesheets, but...sheesh

I think it was advised a bit too early, but ever since flexbox entered the scene, tables for page formatting became irrelevant. And just in case, nobody ever said tables were dead. Tables were declared bad practice for page formatting, not for tabular data.

Do not use flexbox for page layout. It invites nested flexboxes, which eats your reflow performance.

Use grid instead.

Re: Incomplete list of mistakes in the design of CSS

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was advised a bit too early, but ever since flexbox entered the scene, tables for page formatting became irrelevant. And just in case, nobody ever said tables were dead. Tables were declared bad practice for page formatting, not for tabular data.

Do not use flexbox for page layout. It invites nested flexboxes, which eats your reflow performance. Use grid instead.

Useful insight: any sources?

Re: Incomplete list of mistakes in the design of CSS

#25

I will never understand the bizarre scene of the web's smug collective declaration that tables were dead and not to be used juxtaposed against the years it took to regain the ability to reliably center things. Assuming one agrees that we even did regain it. Related: I also love when I can't paste tabular data into Excel/etc. anymore For the record, I don't hate the idea of stylesheets, but...sheesh

The killer argument at the time (and even now most likely) is that screen readers could not distinguish whether the table was used for layout or for data and therefore sight-impaired users would have trouble.

The argument doesn't make sense because it is not too hard for a screenreader to understand whether a table is used for layout and even if it was hard the problem would more easily be solved by just adding an attribute to the table to indicate that it is used for layout.

Re: Incomplete list of mistakes in the design of CSS

#26
post #9

I will never understand the bizarre scene of the web's smug collective declaration that tables were dead and not to be used juxtaposed against the years it took to regain the ability to reliably center things. Assuming one agrees that we even did regain it. Related: I also love when I can't paste tabular data into Excel/etc. anymore For the record, I don't hate the idea of stylesheets, but...sheesh

Tables aren’t dead, they never were… when displaying tabular data. When it comes to layout I think you might be wearing rose tinted glasses. Remember having to put a 1px image in a table cell to avoid it disappearing? Remember “best viewed at 800x600”? I’m personally not nostalgic for either.

There were better solutions to those problems than the CSS debacle.

Re: Incomplete list of mistakes in the design of CSS

#28

I will never understand the bizarre scene of the web's smug collective declaration that tables were dead and not to be used juxtaposed against the years it took to regain the ability to reliably center things. Assuming one agrees that we even did regain it. Related: I also love when I can't paste tabular data into Excel/etc. anymore For the record, I don't hate the idea of stylesheets, but...sheesh

sidenote: as a teen, i would regularly layout posters and presentations in excel.. the page preview dashed-border and the grid stability was such a relief compared to word

Re: Incomplete list of mistakes in the design of CSS

#29

I will never understand the bizarre scene of the web's smug collective declaration that tables were dead and not to be used juxtaposed against the years it took to regain the ability to reliably center things. Assuming one agrees that we even did regain it. Related: I also love when I can't paste tabular data into Excel/etc. anymore For the record, I don't hate the idea of stylesheets, but...sheesh

They shamed everybody into the torturous use of floats for layout and then eventually, about 15 years later, added layout features back into a layout language.

Re: Incomplete list of mistakes in the design of CSS

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was advised a bit too early, but ever since flexbox entered the scene, tables for page formatting became irrelevant. And just in case, nobody ever said tables were dead. Tables were declared bad practice for page formatting, not for tabular data.

Do not use flexbox for page layout. It invites nested flexboxes, which eats your reflow performance. Use grid instead.

Not the first time I hear of this, but I thought it was a blink-specific issue when using severely nested structures (e.g., html pages written using visual editors like Elementor or Webflow)?
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