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Australia begins enforcing world-first teen social media ban

reuters.com

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Re: Australia begins enforcing world-first teen social media ban

#781

Post by globular-toast »

roenxi wrote: post #459
zmmmmm wrote: post #405

A lot of the criticism is based on the concept that it won't be technically watertight. But the key is that it doesn't have to be watertight to work. Social media is all about network effects. Once most kids are on there, everyone has to be on there. If you knock the percentage down far enough, you break the network effect to the point where those who don't want to don't feel pressured to. If that is all it does, it'…

Well, yes but the other problem is this is putting authoritarians in charge of more stuff. I had a comment comparing this to allowing people to eat too much food and that is literally where the logical outcome of this sort of thinking goes - it happens in practice, that isn't some sort of theoretical risk. The more the government decides what people can and can't want to do the worse the potential gets when they make…

> I had a comment comparing this to allowing people to eat too much food

We do that for drugs already. Of course, the correct way to do it is not to try to ban a substance or control supply but simply to ban advertising for addictive stuff. I don't think that works for social media, though, due to the viral nature of it.

Re: Australia begins enforcing world-first teen social media ban

#782

Post by intended »

phantasmish wrote: post #677
ncruces wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can message people they actually know IRL, somewhere without a feed full of crap from people they don't know. Just how do you think they get introduced to TikTok? What do you think gets posted in the school class WhatsApp group chat? My kids' WhatsApp group chats are mostly a torrent of sharing idiotic TikToks, YouTube Shorts, and celebrity Instagrams. Which my kids can't watch… until they're savvy enough to b…

Ah, the inevitable "meh, give up, it's hopeless" post, to go along with the "why don't parents do their fucking job and leave us alone?" posts. No thread on HN related to parenting and technology is complete without a healthy dose of both sorts of post. Sorry, I'm trying to do my fucking job, as others demand.

I dont think that comment materially undermined your position, if anything it supported it?

Re: Australia begins enforcing world-first teen social media ban

#783

Post by eimrine »

yason wrote: post #778

How are they going to verify it's not some kid telling he's 18 with a fake picture? Demand a photo of driver's license? Got one here, right out borrowed from dad's pocket. The article also mentions inferring age from the usage which sounds as vague as it is. The counter point is that doesn't this basically mean everyone, including adults, now has to identify in order to use social media? Without a national electronic…

I am not protecting non-FOSS practices but you can not register on crypto cx by just showing some papers with not showing your fare. That answers the fake picture case.

Re: Australia begins enforcing world-first teen social media ban

#784

Post by globular-toast »

baby wrote: post #159
killingtime74 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialising != Social media. Teens can still use messenger, WhatsApp, phonecalls, text or even....face to face!

That's true. I'll say this though: my social life skyrocketed thanks to Facebook when I was ~18. Not sure what kind of impact it would have had earlier, I was def. more of a kid and social medias were not a thing anyway. Makes sense to me to have an age limit considering cyber bullying and teen suicides and all.

Yeah because all your peers were on it. It wouldn't have skyrocketed if they weren't.

Re: Australia begins enforcing world-first teen social media ban

#785

Post by ptek »

heavyset_go wrote: post #716
rapind wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are government regulations regarding kids. Nothing new here, we’ve been regulating what you can market to kids for decades. I’m not buying a slippery slope argument. As a parent myself, it definitely helps when you can collectively avoid having your kids on these platforms. I can’t express how much easier it is to restrict it and not seem like a kook when authorities are also on board.

We're literally at the point where we have KYC laws just to post on the internet. The slippery slope is long behind us, we're already at the bottom.

I thought you had to use your real name when posting on USENET back in the day before spoofing.

Re: Australia begins enforcing world-first teen social media ban

#786

Post by eimrine »

AuthAuth wrote: post #662
akersten wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you haven't identified any actual problems with them being on social media though. For example, were this lament that parenting is hard written 50 years ago: > As the parent of a teenager affected by this ban (plus one who has aged past it): I wish that it had been in place 8-10 years ago, before either of my kids got introduced to Rock n' Roll. We tried to be reasonably conservative in their introduction to musi…

Its not parenting as a service. Its not even in the same world as rock in roll. Do you think its ok to have smoking, gambling and sex ads shown on tv during the afterschool 3pm-5pm timeslot? Social media is effectively that x100 because TV ads followed advertising restrictions. On social media kids will be subjected to undisclosed advertising for all kinds of products legal and illegal. They will be directly targeted…

Being a watchful parent is neither required nor enough. Being a witful parent is another thing. Try not to ban some digital goolags but to show the real beauty of the world which makes these disservices looking miserable in teen's eyes.

Re: Australia begins enforcing world-first teen social media ban

#787

Post by petesergeant »

roenxi wrote: post #459
zmmmmm wrote: post #405

A lot of the criticism is based on the concept that it won't be technically watertight. But the key is that it doesn't have to be watertight to work. Social media is all about network effects. Once most kids are on there, everyone has to be on there. If you knock the percentage down far enough, you break the network effect to the point where those who don't want to don't feel pressured to. If that is all it does, it'…

Well, yes but the other problem is this is putting authoritarians in charge of more stuff. I had a comment comparing this to allowing people to eat too much food and that is literally where the logical outcome of this sort of thinking goes - it happens in practice, that isn't some sort of theoretical risk. The more the government decides what people can and can't want to do the worse the potential gets when they make…

It’s Australia, it’s a nanny state and always has been, and much as the locals complain, they also love it, and keep voting for it.

The rest of the Anglo world is much less obsessed with government control than the US is; UK is absolutely fine with cameras everywhere, for example, and has almost no protection against parliament. Law enforcement is much more seen as by the people and for the people in these countries.

Re: Australia begins enforcing world-first teen social media ban

#788

Post by skrebbel »

fogj094j0923j4 wrote: post #748
manindahat wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an argument and worth monitoring, but IMO it's not a strong enough argument to stop this. This sort of ban is the same as existing laws banning the sale and consumption of alcohol or driving until kids are of age they will (on average) have sufficient maturity to handle the responsibility. Something we accept. Kids are not banned from digital communication. My daughter can still send text messages and make ph…

All those services are wall-gardened so without an account, you already cannot consume the contents.

That’s a choice made by those services. They can change it.

Re: Australia begins enforcing world-first teen social media ban

#789

Post by intended »

indymike wrote: post #450
gertlex wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I wrong in feeling like the solution you outline is only applicable to an individual's kids? But at the societal level, it clearly seems we can't depend on enough parents to do what you talk about. Something else is needed. I don't have answers to give. Certainly not a fan of the government approach of "everyone must prove their age online now", which I believe is how the AU law is done. (casual listening to Secur…

"Everyone must prove their age online now" creates a trail of identity that kills anonymous speech dead. Anonymous speech is very important to maintaining freedoms... such as freedom of speech and freedom of association.

It is frustrating, to have this argument, when the current state of the art to mould speech, has already found ways around this defensive line.

Currently speech is shaped by producing a glut of speech, and then having the most useful narratives platformed by trusted personalities. Simultaneously, any counter views which do not support the goals of the media-party, do not get aired. Education, science, evidence and journalistic standards are eschewed and authoritarian techniques of loyalty and trust are used to take advantage of whatever story is currently most engaging.

The churn in anonymous forums is used to identify narratives that are the best evolved to spread and gain engagement.

Don’t mistake me for saying anonymity must be given up. Do recognize that worrying about anonymity today, is very much like people talking about the way things were back in their time.

If it helps - from a utilitarian perspective, free speech enables the free exchange of ideas in the service of debates to understand reality. The marketplace of ideas.

Currently the marketplace is captured, and it is not a fair fight between state actors, media teams, troll farms, A/B tested algorithms, and regular folk on the other side.

The invisible hand of the market IS working, ensuring the optimum outcome given the current constraints, or lack thereof.

If we want to defend speech for individuals, if we want a fair fight, we need to address the asymmetry of powers, and lack of recourse.

Re: Australia begins enforcing world-first teen social media ban

#790

Post by i5heu »

skwee357 wrote: post #408

The next step is to outlaw social media in general, and maybe the world will become a bit better. Edit: in case someone decides to disagree with me, here is a non-exhaustive list of issues that social media has created: isolation from the real world, unrealistic expectations in terms of looks/status/success, dehumanization by turning people into likes-dislikes, dehumanizations by creating influencers whose sole purpo…

This must be the modern version of Fahrenheit 451.

Books are bad because „list of bad things“, let’s not weigh in if people like it or not… just burn the books.

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