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In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

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Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#31

Post by littlestymaar »

throwawaypath wrote: post #5
lkbm wrote: post #2

> Particulates issued from tailpipes can aggravate asthma and heart disease and increase the risk of lung cancer and heart attack. Globally, they are a leading risk factor for premature death. Minor nitpick, but tailpipes aren't the primary source of emissions. The study is about PM2.5[0]. which will chiefly be tires and brake pads. Modern gasoline engines are relatively clean, outside of CO2, though diesel engines s…

How do EVs fare in this regard? Brakes are used significantly less, but the additional weight from the batteries chews through tires faster.

A bit worse on tires because they are heavier (for comparable vehicle size, but obviously not if you compare a small EV with a ICE truck), and much better on brakes because of regenerative braking. Overall they are better.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#33

Post by lkbm »

aurareturn wrote: post #20
lkbm wrote: post #2

> Particulates issued from tailpipes can aggravate asthma and heart disease and increase the risk of lung cancer and heart attack. Globally, they are a leading risk factor for premature death. Minor nitpick, but tailpipes aren't the primary source of emissions. The study is about PM2.5[0]. which will chiefly be tires and brake pads. Modern gasoline engines are relatively clean, outside of CO2, though diesel engines s…

Minor nitpick, but tailpipes aren't the primary source of emissions. Spend some time in Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City or a very dense city in Asia and then come back here. Let me know if you change your mind.

I won't change my mind about emissions in NYC. NYC is full of modern, western cars.

Two-stroke engines are terrible, classic automobiles are terrible, cars with no emission regulations will tend to be terrible. Cars in NYC will have catalytic converters and other technologies to reduce tailpipe emissions.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#34

Post by toomuchtodo »

oersted wrote: post #16
lkbm wrote: post #2

> Particulates issued from tailpipes can aggravate asthma and heart disease and increase the risk of lung cancer and heart attack. Globally, they are a leading risk factor for premature death. Minor nitpick, but tailpipes aren't the primary source of emissions. The study is about PM2.5[0]. which will chiefly be tires and brake pads. Modern gasoline engines are relatively clean, outside of CO2, though diesel engines s…

And besides, even if lung cancer and heart attack may be the most common means of premature death, it does not entail that air pollution is the primary cause of them. I thought that smoking and bad dietary/exercise habits were the main factors. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd like to know.

Calculating Air Pollution’s Death Toll, Across State Lines - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/12/climate/air-pollution-hea... | https://archive.today/HEapE - February 12th, 2020

Premature mortality related to United States cross-state air pollution - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-1983-8 | https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-020-1983-8

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#35

Post by mc32 »

aurareturn wrote: post #20
lkbm wrote: post #2

> Particulates issued from tailpipes can aggravate asthma and heart disease and increase the risk of lung cancer and heart attack. Globally, they are a leading risk factor for premature death. Minor nitpick, but tailpipes aren't the primary source of emissions. The study is about PM2.5[0]. which will chiefly be tires and brake pads. Modern gasoline engines are relatively clean, outside of CO2, though diesel engines s…

Minor nitpick, but tailpipes aren't the primary source of emissions. Spend some time in Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh City or a very dense city in Asia and then come back here. Let me know if you change your mind.

They have different ICE engines. Many two stroke scooters. Emissions are way different from those tailpipes. You’re doing apples to oranges comparisons.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#36

Post by ceejayoz »

unreal6 wrote: post #24
jgeada wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does everyone immediately pivot to EVs on this subject, instead of (looks around) gargantuan SUVs and trucks everywhere, due to peculiarities of US policies regulating SUVs more leniently than cars on fuel efficiency?

[flagged]

Tire wear is probably a thing - although I suspect the per-wheel control allows them to better respond to slips and sudden acceleration. I've noticed test driving a Tesla that it accelerates rapidly much more smoothly with no tire slippage than a combustion car.

Brake wear is likely nulled out by regenerative braking. And you're probably not driving highway speeds through Manhattan, either.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#37

Post by littlestymaar »

unreal6 wrote: post #24
jgeada wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does everyone immediately pivot to EVs on this subject, instead of (looks around) gargantuan SUVs and trucks everywhere, due to peculiarities of US policies regulating SUVs more leniently than cars on fuel efficiency?

[flagged]

Tire, yes. But not brakes. With an EV most of the kinetic energy is converted back to electricity thanks to regenerative braking instead of being turned into heat through friction.

Overall the EV emit fewer airborne particles even without counting the exhaust.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#38

Post by maerF0x0 »

cenamus wrote: post #27
oersted wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And besides, even if lung cancer and heart attack may be the most common means of premature death, it does not entail that air pollution is the primary cause of them. I thought that smoking and bad dietary/exercise habits were the main factors. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd like to know.

Air pollution is pretty clearly correlated with reduced life expectancy, even if you don't directly die from it

Also noise pollution, and above ground trains are hella loud. (Or at least CalTrain and BART are...)

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#39

Post by lkbm »

fortran77 wrote: post #30
lkbm wrote: post #2

> Particulates issued from tailpipes can aggravate asthma and heart disease and increase the risk of lung cancer and heart attack. Globally, they are a leading risk factor for premature death. Minor nitpick, but tailpipes aren't the primary source of emissions. The study is about PM2.5[0]. which will chiefly be tires and brake pads. Modern gasoline engines are relatively clean, outside of CO2, though diesel engines s…

This is actually a major nitpick. If this "study" is this sloppy, what else isn't quite true?

The study doesn't mention tailpipes (afiact). This press release/article does. Don't dismiss scientists because journalists reporting their findings incorrectly.

Re: In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

#40

Post by pulisse »

bgirard wrote: post #17

Not surprising. The real question is how do we measure the opportunity cost of these measures? Is it a net gain? You could, at the extreme, ban all motor vehicles but the opportunity cost would outweigh the benefits.

The point of congestion pricing is to let market mechanisms determine where the optimum is.
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