Earlier quoted context omitted.
> why isn't congestion pricing a tariff? Because tariffs are imposed on trade between countries. That was easy!
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Oh, you're playing stupid little word games.
NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months
31–40 of 211 posts
Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months
#32"average daily peak concentrations of PM2.5 dropped by 3.05 µg/m³. For context, background pollution levels in the region typically hover around 8-9 µg/m³, making this reduction particularly significant for public health."
I think that the numbers are already low enough that the drop is actually not very significant, at all. Is there any data that shows better health outcomes at 8 vs 13 for PM 2.5 levels? From my understanding adverse health outcomes come at exposure over the long term to higher levels like 30 minimum
For context I have several air purifiers in my home and I'm all for better air quality but the percentage difference makes it sound like a much bigger drop but when these numbers are already so small I just am skeptical it really makes a difference...
Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> Remember kids: congestion pricing is nothing but a tariff on transportation. On driving . And it actually makes driving more appealing, there’s much less traffic so you can get where you’re going much quicker. > Instead of making public transport more appealing through competition Like having multiple subway systems? NYC did that already.
It makes driving more appealing if one discounts the best alternative use of the funds, which humans are irrationally likely to do. That driving seems better is because people suck at thinking about what else they might do with the money given compound returns on its investment.
Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months
#34The article says "average daily peak concentrations of PM2.5 dropped by 3.05 µg/m³. For context, background pollution levels in the region typically hover around 8-9 µg/m³, making this reduction particularly significant for public health."
But 8-9 was already considered a safe level: "Most studies indicate PM2.5 at or below 12 μg/m3 is considered healthy with little to no risk from exposure. If the level goes to or above 35 μg/m3 during a 24-hour period, the air is considered unhealthy." (https://www.indoorairhygiene.org/pm2-5-explained/)
So, good job on reducing pollution, but you already had very safe levels (well, the article doesn't tell us what the old "peak concentrations" were). Since the levels were "little to no risk", the claim of "significant health benefits" (i.e. reduction in disease or death) should be challenged.
Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months
#35I live in Europe so it's still very much considered pedestrian-friendly, but cars and roads scale so bad. Especially with population density going through the roof in bigger cities. I wonder how it's going to look like in 50 years.
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Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months
#36Regressive tax keeps the poor out of area with their older vehicles that pollute more than people who can afford to pay a $9 fee per day. News at 11.
You act like driving in NYC is free even without the congestion price. You realize how much it costs to park in Manhattan right? $50/day? And if you are coming from the Jersey side, you realize how much the toll is for the tunnel? $17-27.
So yea, if you're poor, you're not driving your beater to SoHo and parking in a lot for $50 daily.
Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months
#37What did it do to GDP? (Sincerely asking)
and downtown activity. i know NYC rebounded better than most us cities, but nearly all of them still ended lower than pre-Covid
Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months
#38"average daily peak concentrations of PM2.5 dropped by 3.05 µg/m³. For context, background pollution levels in the region typically hover around 8-9 µg/m³, making this reduction particularly significant for public health." I think that the numbers are already low enough that the drop is actually not very significant, at all. Is there any data that shows better health outcomes at 8 vs 13 for PM 2.5 levels? From my und…
> I think that the numbers are already low enough
Is that low? I don’t know what is considered high or low here.
Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
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"There is no such thing as a free lunch" is a very strong argument for tolls, I hope you realize. > everyone paying the tolls who now needs to engage in additional pollution-causing economic activity merely to offset the costs of government-mandated congestion pricing I don't think that's how economics work. People are already doing their best to generate money. Also even if that did happen, the thing you're describi…
If people aren't working harder to offset the tolls then they're strictly poorer as a consequence of the toll.
Re: NYC congestion pricing cuts air pollution by a fifth in six months
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
They better be. No one’s rooting for the smog, but a congestion tax is pretty regressive (hurts poorer people more)
I actually doubt it's very regressive in NYC. Also, you're still only counting the price and not the cost. The benefits are likely tilted towards the poorest residents who absorb the most costs of congestion in terms of both pollution and road safety. That's just an educated guess but it's very plausible.
A charge on the marginal driver looks regressive if you only examine who pays the toll, but not who’s been paying the externalities all along. Once you include the benefits - faster buses, cleaner air, better reliability, and the ability to reinvest revenue into transit - the incidence flips pretty quickly.
We’re basically shifting costs from people who can’t opt out of congestion to people who can. That’s about as progressive as a transport policy gets.