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Django: what’s new in 6.0

adamj.eu

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Re: Django: what’s new in 6.0

#31

Post by WD-42 »

chistev wrote: post #12
giancarlostoro wrote: post #2

Template partials look good, which is one of the key reasons frameworks like React are as good and popular as they are, because you can reuse small segments of code.

But you could already reuse templates in Django by including them. What am I missing?

Partialdef inline is the real win. Lets you define parts of a page without needing to place them in another file. Reduces the mental overhead of imagining how the inclusion will look because it’s already there.

The use case is mainly driven by htmx where you will have lots of these partials and the view code renders them as individual responses.

Re: Django: what’s new in 6.0

#32

Post by ryanisnan »

adamchainz wrote: post #29
teagee wrote: post #3

Any code or blog written by Adam is worth spending some time on. It will be interesting to see how the tasks framework develops and expands. I am sad to see the great Django-Q2 lumped in with the awful Celery though.

OP here, thanks for the praise! Yeah, I mentioned Celery due to its popularity, no other reason ;)

You are a great writer - thanks for putting this together!

Re: Django: what’s new in 6.0

#33

Post by nine_k »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #26
nine_k wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonce_word It makes me sad when a secondary meaning, which does not even overcome the main meaning in usage, becomes an obstacle for the normal use of a word. It's like seeing a rainbow as a sexualized symbol not fit for children, because it also happens to be used by LGBTQ+ community. (BTW, since you're a Brit: did people stop using the word "fag" to refer to a cigarette?)

I mean, it is sad. But unfortunately that is what happened with "master", "slave", "whitelist", and "blacklist". No reasonable person construed these as offensive or having any implications about the wider world. But there are people in our profession who are determined to take offense where none is given, and unfortunately they got their way.

Well, "slave" has a pretty direct main meaning of an oppressed person doing forced labor. The word "master" is much milder in this regard (compare "master's degree" and "slave's degree"). The word "nonce" in normal usage seems even more removed from any pejorative secondary meanings.

Re: Django: what’s new in 6.0

#34

Post by wahnfrieden »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #2

Template partials look good, which is one of the key reasons frameworks like React are as good and popular as they are, because you can reuse small segments of code.

There've been a variety of open source attempts at this idea. Is this official one now the best to use, or are the others still compelling?

Re: Django: what’s new in 6.0

#36

Post by tclancy »

hintoftime wrote: post #28
teagee wrote: post #3

Any code or blog written by Adam is worth spending some time on. It will be interesting to see how the tasks framework develops and expands. I am sad to see the great Django-Q2 lumped in with the awful Celery though.

Why is celery awful?

Because it’s a seducer. It does what you need to do and you two are happy together. So you shower more tasks on Celery and it becomes cold and non-responsive at random times.

And debugging is a pain in the ass. Most places I’ve been that have it, I’ve tried to sell them on adding Flower to give better insight and everyone thinks that’s a very good idea but there isn’t time because we need to debug these inscrutable Celery issues.

https://flower.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

Re: Django: what’s new in 6.0

#37

Post by blorenz »

teagee wrote: post #3

Any code or blog written by Adam is worth spending some time on. It will be interesting to see how the tasks framework develops and expands. I am sad to see the great Django-Q2 lumped in with the awful Celery though.

I’m currently stuck with the tech debt of Celery myself. I understand that! Does Django Tasks support async functions?

Re: Django: what’s new in 6.0

#39

Post by akoumjian »

hintoftime wrote: post #28
teagee wrote: post #3

Any code or blog written by Adam is worth spending some time on. It will be interesting to see how the tasks framework develops and expands. I am sad to see the great Django-Q2 lumped in with the awful Celery though.

Why is celery awful?

Celery is great and awful at the same time. In particular, because it is many Python folks' first introduction to distributed task processing and all the things that can go wrong with it. Not to mention, debugging can be a nightmare. Some examples:

- your function arguments aren't serializable - your side effects (e.g. database writes) aren't idempotent - discovering what backpressure is and that you need it - losing queued tasks during deployment / non-compatible code changes

There's also some stuff particular to celery's runtime model that makes it incredibly prone to memory leaks and other fun stuff.

Honestly, it's a great education.

Re: Django: what’s new in 6.0

#40

Post by leobuskin »

hintoftime wrote: post #28
teagee wrote: post #3

Any code or blog written by Adam is worth spending some time on. It will be interesting to see how the tasks framework develops and expands. I am sad to see the great Django-Q2 lumped in with the awful Celery though.

Why is celery awful?

It's okay till it's not. Everyone I know who had Celery in production was looking for a substitution (custom or third-party) on a regular basis. Too many moving pieces and nuances (config × logic × backend), too many unresolved problems deep in its core (we've seen some ghosts you can't debug), too much of a codebase to understand or hack. At some point we were able to stabilize it (a bunch of magic tricks and patches) and froze every related piece; it worked well under pressure (thanks, RabbitMQ).
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