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Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

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Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#81

Post by randomdata »

Evbn wrote: post #76
DennisP wrote: post #48

Also, in what other job can you build your own little slaves to do some of your work for you? You don't even have to tell anyone.

Farming :-)

Farming is undergoing a similar talent crunch right now. If you are in the right parts of the world and have a little skill behind your name, you can easily make $50/hr as a farmhand.

Food and tech is where investors are piling all their money right now. As both a software developer and farmer, I do fear what will happen when investments start going elsewhere.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#82

Post by EwanG »

skrebbel wrote: post #64
colinb wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the problems with software engineering is that [almost] no one knows anything about it. I've been a working programmer [or software engineer if I've just met you at a party and I think you're cute] for long enough to work on >5 multi-billion dollar projects. Of these, one was delivered on time and according to spec. That company went down the toilet within four years. I've read fairly widely in the sof…

A multi-billion dollar project. I can't really imagine that. Are those ever executed by a single company all on its own? Are they software-only? Do they exist outside NASA?

I think timescale may be applicable here. Some key programs for large companies will spend several million a year for several years - particularly if you are taking your Mainframe applications and trying to restructure them to have more easily changed business rules and a new infrastructure.

That said, I also suspect he may have been exaggerating for effect :-)

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#83

Post by adgar2 »

skrebbel wrote: post #64
colinb wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the problems with software engineering is that [almost] no one knows anything about it. I've been a working programmer [or software engineer if I've just met you at a party and I think you're cute] for long enough to work on >5 multi-billion dollar projects. Of these, one was delivered on time and according to spec. That company went down the toilet within four years. I've read fairly widely in the sof…

A multi-billion dollar project. I can't really imagine that. Are those ever executed by a single company all on its own? Are they software-only? Do they exist outside NASA?

Microsoft and Apple both have multi-billion dollar projects.

Edit: Google and Amazon likely don't, actually.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#84

Post by balakk »

skrebbel wrote: post #64
colinb wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the problems with software engineering is that [almost] no one knows anything about it. I've been a working programmer [or software engineer if I've just met you at a party and I think you're cute] for long enough to work on >5 multi-billion dollar projects. Of these, one was delivered on time and according to spec. That company went down the toilet within four years. I've read fairly widely in the sof…

A multi-billion dollar project. I can't really imagine that. Are those ever executed by a single company all on its own? Are they software-only? Do they exist outside NASA?

Probably some medium-sized SAP implementation.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#85

Post by EwanG »

veemjeem wrote: post #33
plinkplonk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why isn't the field extremely competitive now? " Visas. Most programming work (of the type talked about in the OP) originates in the USA, and most companies, even startups, need employees to come in the door everyday. (not taking on the question of whether this is ideal or not, that is the just the way it is, right now) . Imagine (as a thought experiment) a scenario where a smart kid who lives in India or Ukraine or…

That perspective is from someone who lives in the USA. If you live in China, programmers are as hot a commodity as they are in the USA, but it's hard to find good programmers. I know of several companies in China trying to hire developers in the USA because it's easier to source high quality talent than locally in Shanghai. Every time there is a tech meetup talk in shanghai, around 300 people show up, but only 20 of…

I just have to ask, where do I contact these companies in China looking for US programmers, and is Mandarin a requirement? This sounds a bit like the offers to make a good living teaching English overseas, where the reality is a bit different.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#86

Post by gnaritas »

dmethvin wrote: post #29

I'm one of those guys programming in my 50s. Technically my jobs involve project management and consulting as well but I still love programming the most. Saying that programming "requires little or no education" is from the perspective of either a naturally smart person or the Dunning–Kruger effect. Like any profession, there are some self-motivated people who can do the job effectively without formal education. Yet…

I think he means little or no formal education required; i.e. something the self taught can get into based on merit alone. You can't do that with a lot of high paying professions as they absolutely require formal education.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#87

Post by veemjeem »

strengthftw wrote: post #71
veemjeem wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that could still depend -- suppose the individual in question made lots of money by selling a software product, and develops a passion for it due to the payout. Does it matter if he was initially passionate, or only after making the money? A friend of mine hated piano as a child, only after many forced hours of practice (from his tiger mom) he became really good and started to win state championships for his…

Do you by chance read Cal Newport's blog? or have read his recent book "So Good They Can't Ignore You: Why Skills Trump Passion in the Quest for Work You Love"

nope, did he form the same opinion as mine?

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#88

Post by randomdata »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #68
plinkplonk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why isn't the field extremely competitive now? " Visas. Most programming work (of the type talked about in the OP) originates in the USA, and most companies, even startups, need employees to come in the door everyday. (not taking on the question of whether this is ideal or not, that is the just the way it is, right now) . Imagine (as a thought experiment) a scenario where a smart kid who lives in India or Ukraine or…

All this would do is a short-term depression of SF programmer wages coupled to short-term surge in worldwide programmer wages. Because guess what, smart guy in Ukraine was already employed there and when he moves the next guy coming to fill the gap will either cost more or be less smart. Programmer talent is sparse worldwide, not just in the Valley.

Programmer talent is sparse worldwide

And yet, when I look around at the job postings in Canada, a job with requirements that go on endlessly tops out at about $80,000/year. Expect less if you are an average programmer. Such a low income, relative to what US-based companies are offering, doesn't really speak to a shortage in my mind.

I admit, there could be some kind of survivorship bias here: I'm only seeing the lower-paying jobs because the good jobs are less likely to be hanging around on the job boards. But then if an $80,000/yr. job is failing to attract talent, should it even be considered a real position with respect to shortage counting? I could hire dozens of programmers if they would only do it for $10/hr., but I don't think it is fair to count those as unfilled positions or a shortage surrounding that. Nobody with talent is ever going to do it for that kind of pay.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#89

Post by drpgq »

hyko wrote: post #25

>" No health (...) risks " I'd like to see some research to back up this claim, but I'm not aware of any studies into occupational health for programmers. Does anyone know of any?

I had some pretty bad RSI where I had to take a couple of months off so I don't think the risk is nothing.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#90

Post by veemjeem »

EwanG wrote: post #85
veemjeem wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That perspective is from someone who lives in the USA. If you live in China, programmers are as hot a commodity as they are in the USA, but it's hard to find good programmers. I know of several companies in China trying to hire developers in the USA because it's easier to source high quality talent than locally in Shanghai. Every time there is a tech meetup talk in shanghai, around 300 people show up, but only 20 of…

I just have to ask, where do I contact these companies in China looking for US programmers, and is Mandarin a requirement? This sounds a bit like the offers to make a good living teaching English overseas, where the reality is a bit different.

Surprisingly, they source them here by visiting the States and finding people the same way Zynga & Google would. I was recently recruited for a project for a startup in Shanghai recently -- the most complicated part is the compensation part as most USA based services don't accept payments from China, including Google Wallet.

And no, mandarin isn't a requirement. I'm not really teaching english like those stories from japanese blogs -- I'll be coding in coffeescript for my wages.

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