Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50? • Hacker News Board

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#31

Post by krzyk » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 1:37 PM UTC

"Little or no required education" really? Sitting at the cashier requires little or no education, but doing programming requires much more education (either on your own or someone has to teach you). From my perspective a lot people I know aren't capable of programming just as they are unable to solve mathematical problems (and a lot of people can't even do basic math when buying at grocery store).

Not to mention that here where I work you are tested for your knowledge and problem solving skills - so although there is a high demand there are still very few that are hired.

BTW. About 15 years ago I heard that it's not a good choice to go and study computer science because there are a lot of others that do it and the market will be saturated. And we know how it is saturated right now (it isn't). There are more and more "places" where software wasn't needed before (e.g. cars, TVs) and now it is required - demand for programmers increases.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#32

Post by VexXtreme » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 1:40 PM UTC

I agree with many of the things written in the original post. But I definitely disagree with the notion that the barrier to entry in this profession is low and that any Joe Sixpack can start programming for a living because it's supposedly easy.

I can vividly remember my days in back in college where a lot of fellow students in my CS classes had substantial problems writing even the simplest of programs and understanding basic statements and data structures. A lot of them couldn't even write simple programs which would take user input, do something with it and give some output, let alone come up with more complicated solutions and architectures for real world problems.

This field is not for everyone and I believe that is often not obvious to many of us because we take our ability to turn mental constructs into code for granted. A lot of people just don't have the mental facilities to do it. I'm not saying this to sound elitist, but it's the way it is.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#33

Post by veemjeem » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 1:41 PM UTC

plinkplonk wrote: post #23

_yosefk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't the field extremely competitive now? The demand has been strong for a decade and a half; it seems like a lot of time. (I'm not sure I have an explanation myself, really; perhaps it's something innate in people and perhaps it's something about education, but the fact remains that the world still hasn't churned out enough programmers even though the incentives have been there for a long time. One possible exp…

"Why isn't the field extremely competitive now? " Visas. Most programming work (of the type talked about in the OP) originates in the USA, and most companies, even startups, need employees to come in the door everyday. (not taking on the question of whether this is ideal or not, that is the just the way it is, right now) . Imagine (as a thought experiment) a scenario where a smart kid who lives in India or Ukraine or…

That perspective is from someone who lives in the USA. If you live in China, programmers are as hot a commodity as they are in the USA, but it's hard to find good programmers. I know of several companies in China trying to hire developers in the USA because it's easier to source high quality talent than locally in Shanghai. Every time there is a tech meetup talk in shanghai, around 300 people show up, but only 20 of them know what they're talking about. Maybe computing isn't a field that chinese people study hard to become good at.

The companies in the USA are competing with companies in China for essentially the same talent pool. It's a good time to be in software.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#34

Post by MaggieL » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 1:41 PM UTC

If this fellow truly has no passion for his craft, I hope he can find the energy to constantly update his skills when he's 50.

I started in FORTRAN in 1968. Today I'm working in Java and MongoDB and studying Scala and Go.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#35

Post by winter_blue » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 1:48 PM UTC

I have a suspicion (albeit a light one), that programming in itself will become a commodity skill, like "good writing" (something you _have_ to know to score well on the SAT/GRE).

It would become a necessary skill that simply everyone in a wide variety of fields (doctors, accountants, etc) where programming is the slightest bit helpful would have.

In such an age and era, will programmers get paid anything close to what they get paid today?

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#36

Post by donpark » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 1:50 PM UTC

dmethvin wrote: post #29

I'm one of those guys programming in my 50s. Technically my jobs involve project management and consulting as well but I still love programming the most. Saying that programming "requires little or no education" is from the perspective of either a naturally smart person or the Dunning–Kruger effect. Like any profession, there are some self-motivated people who can do the job effectively without formal education. Yet…

Yup. While formal education is not necessary, one has to keep learning to stay in the forefront of this profession. If you stop, your 'shelf-life' is 10 yrs at most.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#37

Post by veemjeem » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 1:51 PM UTC

koide wrote: post #17

mtrimpe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with outsourcing is not 'quality perception,' it's the actual quality. The good programmers around the world command good salaries, whether out-sourced or not. In the end it doesn't matter whether you're in India or the the US; there are just not that many great programmers around.

That's why I said quality perception and control . This is, making sure you are producing what's needed. As to the rest, I'm baffled. How can you even think it doesn't matter where you are? Different cultures value differently different jobs. For example, I know of places where programmers are not valued much and it doesn't matter how good you are, you'll not earn more than a corporate salesman. Maybe it doesn't matt…

disrupting culture sounds hard. Software isn't a field students in china work towards because there just isn't as many jobs there as other fields. The pay is fairly mediocre so top students from universities aren't exactly dying to get into that field. It may take at least a generation or two to convince the masses that software engineering is just a good of a job as chemical engineering.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#38

Post by gardarh » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 1:53 PM UTC

It's posts like these that get me as a programmer worried. Arrogance tends to lead to bad things and the world can change at a pace greater than one can imagine (a good way for me to understand how swiftly things change is to ask myself: Could I have foreseen x years ago what I am be doing today? for me, using the relatively low value of x=5 the answer is a definitive no. And I think that's a good thing).

Be humble if people are willing to pay you more money than others for what you do - it might change incredibly fast. The more generic assumption of the post is that people are willing to pay good money for skills that are relatively rare... well, make sure to keep your skill set up to date.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#39

Post by will_work4tears » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 1:54 PM UTC

hyko wrote: post #25

>" No health (...) risks " I'd like to see some research to back up this claim, but I'm not aware of any studies into occupational health for programmers. Does anyone know of any?

Actually sitting too much has lately been touted as a health concern: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sitting/AN02082

I should probably get a standing desk. I try to stand up, move about and go to the restroom or look out a window every hour, so maybe that helps.

Re: Do you really want to be making this much money when you're 50?

#40

Post by veemjeem » Sat, Oct 06, 2012, 1:57 PM UTC

koide wrote: post #19

dasil003 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot to be said for face time. Given an average contractor, if you bring him on site and meet with the team for 3 days a month, I bet the ROI easily doubles. Getting value out of outsourced workers is a skill more rare than programming itself.

And that's why it's a perfect niche for disruption: High barrier to entry, lots of money in the market. Yummy.

But usually that high barrier is erected by incumbent companies in that field, whereas the "incumbent" in this case is mindshare and perception. I'm not so sure a sole individual or company could change that easily... it's like when slavery was abolished, it still took the USA quite some time to treat african americans as equals.