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Employees of kixeye accused of racist remarks fired

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Re: Employees of kixeye accused of racist remarks fired

#61

Post by mratzloff »

un1xl0ser wrote: post #56

It is quite clear that this was not an inclusive working environment. Some of the comments on their own are not overtly racist, but it is certainly walking thin line. I've had a situation that was sort of similar where a co-worker made a comment on my clothing being too uhm, urban. Jeans, oversized hoodie (hood up), and shit kicker boots. I was sick, and it was freezing out walked into a meeting and it was announced…

> I've had a situation that was sort of similar where a co-worker made a comment on my clothing being too uhm, urban.

That's not the same thing at all. The guy in question was accused of dressing too "thuggish" when he was wearing skinny jeans and wingtips. In other words, because he was black, regardless of what he was wearing.

A joke was made about how you were dressed because you had a hoodie with the hood up and are apparently white... like Eminem[1][2][3][4].

[1] http://cdn.preview.thumbplay.com/VAN/Thumb_Preview/Wall/UMG/...

[2] http://images.hitfix.com/photos/703638/eminem-hoodie_article...

[3] http://www4.pictures.gi.stylebistro.com/Eminem+Tops+Hoodie+0...

[4] http://inthehoodie.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/emine...

Re: Employees of kixeye accused of racist remarks fired

#62

Post by mratzloff »

btilly wrote: post #46

This is a common response in dysfunctional workplaces. A problem comes up, identify some scapegoats, fire them, put out a PR statement. Whether or not this is meaningful won't be obvious for some time. But at most dysfunctional workplaces the problems go deeper than the scapegoats fired, and problems persist. With an overlay of, "You got my friend fired!"

Scapegoats or not, I bet the remaining employees are more careful about the things they say from now on.

Re: Employees of kixeye accused of racist remarks fired

#63

Post by alecdibble »

codenerdz wrote: post #39

I cant help but feel that this qu33riousity guys is coocoo. While I think that what he was subjected to is unacceptable, his rhetoric reminds me of conspiracy nutcases that said that US government played a role in the WTC tragedy: "And it’s not a matter of generalizing white people, rather it’s being real about the culture San Francisco creates. Other people of color, including some black people are in on it too, but…

I don't feel that he is was trying to convey a literal conspiracy. It seems to me like he is saying that he does not like the racial culture of that area and that some African-Americans contribute to the culture in such a way that helps keep the negative dynamic going.

Re: Employees of kixeye accused of racist remarks fired

#64

Post by mnjoltr »

barking wrote: post #24
indy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you sound racist

He sounds angry and a bit OTT to me. Inferring that someone is a racist (as you're doing) is extremely serious. Your remark comes across as a bit creepy actually

There's nothing creepy about it, comrade. Just be sure not to express any unpopular opinions, even if they have nothing to do with race. We wouldn't want anything to happen to you or your career, you see.

Re: Employees of kixeye accused of racist remarks fired

#65

Post by alecdibble »

sergiotapia wrote: post #37
npc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how is it necessary to make racist comments in order to "get shit done"? will your production systems all crash if you don't make a minimum of 5 jokes about nappy hair and malt liquor a day? have you encountered a nasty bug in rails that can only be fixed by exposing it to clips of Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's?

It's not a matter of it being necessary or unnecessary. It's a matter of letting small things slide or taking them in strides. Haven't you ever seen a movie where men jostle each other and call each other things too crass to type in here? Do they whine and run to the boss about how "mean they were"? Of course not, because clearly in this case it's just a case of men being men and flinging the usual shit at each other…

The idea is that BY LAW, you should not have to be subjected to that kind of environment in the workplace. If you don't like it, then get the law changed.

Re: Employees of kixeye accused of racist remarks fired

#66

Post by mnjoltr »

un1xl0ser wrote: post #56

It is quite clear that this was not an inclusive working environment. Some of the comments on their own are not overtly racist, but it is certainly walking thin line. I've had a situation that was sort of similar where a co-worker made a comment on my clothing being too uhm, urban. Jeans, oversized hoodie (hood up), and shit kicker boots. I was sick, and it was freezing out walked into a meeting and it was announced…

I felt singled out for the way that I dress. Now I guess that anyone can debate here if what I said or the initial comment was racist, but I would say that it wasn't, just ignorant and stupid.

Personally, I would say that you are the one who is being ignorant and stupid by dressing like a clown, and then getting all huffy when someone gently pokes fun at you. Also, there's nothing racist about not liking someone's clothing. Clothing is not a race.

In conclusion, douches like you are the reason we have dress codes. Good job.

Re: Employees of kixeye accused of racist remarks fired

#67

Post by stretchwithme »

codemac wrote: post #29

> While many in San Francisco have begun to use the term "post racist" as a matter-fact-statement to describe the relatively inclusive work environment, the difference between the mostly affluent white community on the peninsula and the impoverished Oakland across the bay is impossible to miss. What? Who says that? The only time I've heard the phrase "post racist" is either The Colbert Report, or people being sarcast…

I think things are more complicated than statistics can properly capture.

Its possible to start a software business with very little resources. And there are people of all races that have done so. Do the users know what race of people are developing their software? Do they care?

That does not mean that some groups are not more wary of doing things due to past racism and the possibility of encountering it more when they go outside their comfort zone. Many, many people in all groups do what is expected over many other values.

I also think there are just as many people who will go out of their way to help and do business with someone different as will hold it against them. Frankly, for many skills, if you're a coding demon, they will hire you. I doubt you will find anyone in any group with significant talent that isn't turning away work.

There are other factors as well. Many people in some communities don't like it when people try to improve themselves. Hopefully that is on the wain.

And then there is the effect of violence in places like Oakland. Its hard to stay out at all hours coding if you have to worry about who'll you encounter on the way home.

Re: Employees of kixeye accused of racist remarks fired

#68

Post by MartinCron »

arohner wrote: post #49
waterlesscloud wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of such training is to make it less legally risky to fire people for being insensitive. Looks like it was effective.

Stupid question: It's already illegal to discriminate and harass on the basis of race. Why do you need a training program to make it less risky to fire people over it?

I think it's less risky because it sends a clear signal to employees that if they're fired for being racist assholes, they don't have any real grounds for to sue for unlawful termination.

Even groundless unlawful termination lawsuits are a pain in the ass to deal with. It's better to discourage them than to litigate them.

Re: Employees of kixeye accused of racist remarks fired

#69

Post by rickmb »

This isn't racism. This is bullying, using, amongst many other things, marginally racist remarks as a weapon. That kind of stuff is as much racism as tasteless jokes about wife-beating constitute actual domestic violence.

This is clearly a very disfunctional and unhealthy work environment, but with the aggressively paranoid reaction to it is equally unhealthy and most of all, fails to address the actual problem. After firing the "racists", this is likely to remain a toxic environment who's next "victim" could very well be a white heterosexual male who for some other reason forms an easy target.

Re: Employees of kixeye accused of racist remarks fired

#70

Post by Anechoic »

barking wrote: post #58
anu_gupta wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@barking. So what? Honestly, so what? Are you trying to say that even by the standards of other prejudiced people you come across as prejudiced? Or perhaps you're implying that one act of prejudice by someone from a "minority" means that it's open season on all minorities?

Maybe people are more likely to perceive the behaviour of others towards them as racist, if they are racist themselves? That perhaps the accuser should be looked at as critically as the accused.

Maybe people are more likely to perceive the behaviour of others towards them as racist, if they are racist themselves?

Really? The "I know you are, but what am I" defense?

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