The Best Way to Find Aliens: Look for Their Solar Power Plants • Hacker News Board

Re: The Best Way to Find Aliens: Look for Their Solar Power Plants

#41

Post by kamaal » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 10:05 AM UTC

lutusp wrote: post #26

enraged_camel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never understood such assumptions of intelligence. "If a civilization could do X, they could also do Y and Z." Says who? It's not like we're experts in alien intelligence. How can we be, when we have never encountered one?

All true, but applying common sense still has a point. For example, do we want to broadcast the fact of our own existence across interstellar distances? This is actually an active debate topic among those who think about stuff like this. Ironically, after a brief spell of broadcasting our existence with powerful radio and radar waves, we're gradually shutting down the big transmitters for reasons of economy and effic…

>>do we want to broadcast the fact of our own existence across interstellar distances?

We are already doing it(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message). We are also sent a probe with heck lot of details on it(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record).

>>This is actually an active debate topic among those who think about stuff like this.

True, but we have always been sending radio signals in space and probably will continue to.

Re: The Best Way to Find Aliens: Look for Their Solar Power Plants

#42

Post by kamaal » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 10:07 AM UTC

w1ntermute wrote: post #16

Solar power? I'm pretty sure they'd be using nuclear fusion.

Dyson sphere is basically designing energy harvesting mechanisms for nuclear fusion.

Re: The Best Way to Find Aliens: Look for Their Solar Power Plants

#43

Post by nitrogen » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 12:01 PM UTC

sbierwagen wrote: post #30

mediocregopher wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of Larry Niven, my impression after reading Ringworld (in addition to "holy shit that was good") was that Dyson Spheres were kind of a non-workable, and that a species who'd advanced far enough to actually make one could probably just colonize another system anyway.

A swarm-Dyson sphere, which is the only kind that can be realistically built, is incremental. You just keep building habitats in orbit around the sun, until eventually you capture all the sunlight.

Clearly a solid Dyson sphere is not orbiting its host star, and could eventually drift into the star. However, might it be possible to harvest enough energy from the star to power a propulsion system that keeps the sphere in place?

Re: The Best Way to Find Aliens: Look for Their Solar Power Plants

#44

Post by batgaijin » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 12:12 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #40

patd wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One civilization could be at war with another and trying to hide their sources of energy.

It looks really naive that civilizations so advanced to blot out an entire star for its energy can't even find a way to co exist in such a vast universe. But looking at how fellow humans behave with each other. I would say that is definitely a possibility.

Show me a future prediction that said we'd be using our advanced contraptions primarily for viewing porn.

Re: The Best Way to Find Aliens: Look for Their Solar Power Plants

#45

Post by yummyfajitas » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 12:20 PM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #34

sxp wrote: post #4

>A civilization that built a Dyson Sphere would have to go to great lengths to avoid detection, either by getting rid of its waste heat in some novel way, or by building massive radiators that give off heat so cool that it would be undetectable against the cosmic microwave background, the faint afterglow of the Big Bang. So if a civilization were to completely mask itself in the EM spectrum, the only way to detect th…

>>A civilization might do this either to hide from others Why would they try to hide this from others? Are we trying to hide our satellites, or our probes that we are sending out?

Because interstellar destructive war is easy (assuming you already have interstellar travel). Just throw rocks really fast.

Assuming hiding is technologically feasible, why take the risk?

Re: The Best Way to Find Aliens: Look for Their Solar Power Plants

#46

Post by maxerickson » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 12:33 PM UTC

lutusp wrote: post #23

jakeonthemove wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, they could have their own nuclear fusion reactors or even something more sophisticated, but why let a perfectly good source of energy just go to waste? I don't think they'd care that anyone could detect them if they're that advanced...

> Sure, they could have their own nuclear fusion reactors or even something more sophisticated, but why let a perfectly good source of energy just go to waste? TO avoid detection by some other warlike species? Regardless of the alienness of a life form, there are certain principles one can rely on, under average circumstances: * Resource aren't infinite anywhere, and an intelligent species won't deliberately waste re…

The most likely shape of interstellar war is lasergrams that say "We hate you" (but here is some harvestable energy...).

The next most likely is probably relativistic projectiles, which are dangerous in proportion to the energy required to send them (i.e., they aren't that likely a threat).

Direct invasions of civilizations that can shape the matter of an entire solar system seem pretty much destined to failure (I guess you could come in on a ship built from an entire solar system, but I wonder if you are war mongering at that point).

Re: The Best Way to Find Aliens: Look for Their Solar Power Plants

#47

Post by yummyfajitas » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 1:56 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #13

Build your Dyson sphere with large gaps in the galactic plane. Then observers at most other stars in your galaxy will see your star, and then you don't have to either build a giant sphere or come up with exotic heat management systems to avoid detection.

Your sphere won't be in orbit, and you'll need to expend massive amounts of mass/energy fighting against gravity.

Re: The Best Way to Find Aliens: Look for Their Solar Power Plants

#48

Post by fractallyte » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 5:52 PM UTC

mcantor wrote: post #29

lurker14 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"terawatts", not "terawatts".

'"terawatts", not "terrawatts"', not '"terawatts", not "terawatts"'.

Although 'terrawatts' is a rather charming play on the word, considering the context...

Re: The Best Way to Find Aliens: Look for Their Solar Power Plants

#49

Post by grecy » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 7:35 PM UTC

lutusp wrote: post #28

grecy wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> also has energy alternatives What's an "energy alternative" ?

Fusion is an energy alternative to coal. Wind is an energy alternative to solar, and vice versa. Things like that.

Right. I get that.

Your parent comment implies they would have an "energy alternative" to... energy.

When you say "A civilization so advanced as to be able to capture the entire energy of a star, probably also has energy alternatives".

What "energy alternatives" are you talking about?

Re: The Best Way to Find Aliens: Look for Their Solar Power Plants

#50

Post by hcarvalhoalves » Fri, Oct 05, 2012, 10:51 PM UTC

Is it just me, or is there someone else who thinks theories like these are so naive it borders the ridiculous?

Isn't it too pretentious to think that, not only other similar civilizations do exist (which is a stretch already), but also predict their infra-structure necessities and what kind of solution they are going to come up with?

I known I'm nobody and Mr. Dyson is a Nobel-prize grade genius, but come on... this is (much) more fiction than science.

PS: Let the downvotes commence.