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Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

bbc.com

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Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#201

Post by flohofwoe »

m000 wrote: post #23
bethekidyouwant wrote: post #2

“The change means that all 18-year-olds in Germany will be sent a questionnaire from January 2026 asking if they are interested and willing to join the armed forces. The form will be mandatory for men and voluntary for women.“ - all men have to fill out and return a form, I suppose this will work to increase recruitment. Doesn’t seem very controversial.

The problem here that this probably is only part of a larger society militarization plan. The guaranteed next step is to offer the volunteers a long term paid contract at the end of their term. This would probably be well above what they would be paid elsewhere (young men with no university degree, desperate enough to volunteer in the first place). Run the scheme for a few years, and you will have a large number of,…

Both Germanies had a conscription army and mandatory military service during the entire Cold War period, and that didn't lead to a 'militarized society'.

And even with the new voluntary service the armed forces will be much smaller than the army of just West-Germany alone during the cold war (which was about 0.5 million).

It's time to wake up to the fact that the Cold War actually never ended.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#202

Post by 4gotunameagain »

whatevaa wrote: post #149
4gotunameagain wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Hi, Russian propaganda.

ahahah really ? I would suggest you study some geopolitics.

I am not pro Russia, I am anti war. There are no winners in war. And the US betrayed us (I live in Germany).

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#203

Post by jasonvorhe »

hkpack wrote: post #193
jasonvorhe wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I chuckled because of the s/Russia/Putin/g nonsense everywhere. I'm not laughing at anyone's expense if they forcibly lose their home, no matter where and under which circumstances.

You see, millions are already killed in the biggest war in Europe since WW2 and it looks like this is just the prelude. Russia is threatening to fight Europe as of yesterday, continue to increase weapon production and militarisation. It is obvious that it just cannot stop as its economy and social order is switching more and more to the war-time. China backs russia up and officially declaring that it cannot allow Rus…

Also what about that "millions" number? Where did that come from? I can barely find any mentions of numbers exceeding 500.000 people being killed thus far.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#204

Post by fifilura »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #141
fifilura wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing is cheap in Somalia too. Freedom is not prices of rent - it’s whether the police can arrest you for criticizing the government.

You're also describing Germany and most of Europe will follow suit. Political elites wanting war will make it so that being against the government will be punishable by law. See UK, see Germany where posts on social media will get you visits by police. Everything the media has been hammering Russia for is being setup right here in Europe.

No it is not comparable.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/1/22/russia-hands-down-c...

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#205

Post by [deleted] »

nicbou wrote: post #28

To offer a bit of context, the same government just voted to raise current pensions at the expense of steep taxation hikes for current workers, made massive cuts to social services, and is now discussing military service. This generation is rightfully feeling like they're getting a sore deal.

[deleted]

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#206

Post by flohofwoe »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #26
fasbiner wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be too far of an obscure historical reference, but is there really nothing specific to German history and nothing within german civic education and contemporary national identity formation that might make this potentially more controversial? Hint:some of these events involved spheres of influence and control over resources in eastern europe!

I think the much bigger issue is that the older generation (those who, say, turned 18 in the 70s) told the younger generation lots of really nasty stories about the cruel trials people had to endure who wanted to do alternative national service (Zivildienst) instead of military service. These formed the value system of many people in at least two generations ("Soldaten sind Mörder" [soldiers are murders]). EDIT: If y…

> about the cruel trials people had to endure who wanted to do alternative national service

Tbf, at least in West Germany people had a choice. In East Germany you ended up as 'Bausoldat': https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bausoldat, and you could forget about any 'carreer opportunities' for the rest of your life.

And as former East German who then went the 'Kriegsdienstverweigerer' path in unified Germany during the 90's I cannot complain about any discrimination or incorrect behaviour, all communication was perfectly correct and respectful and I didn't even have to show up anywhere in person (in hindsight it was a silly decision - but in the 90s it really looked for a little while like the Cold War might be over and armies would no longer be needed in Europe).

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#207

Post by jijijijij »

jalapenos wrote: post #181

[flagged]

> At least they, you know, die soon.

They may very well live another 20 years and you have to pay their demise, too. Their generation smoked more, drank more alcohol, had a life full of asbestos, PCB and lead. It's gonna be expensive for us.

We had our chance in 2020, but blew it because of silly ethics. I see little gratitude for the gigantic sacrifice the young generation made for boomer life. I hope the kidz won't forget next time someone eats a bat.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#209

Post by akimbostrawman »

mystraline wrote: post #10

The article is using "voluntary" in a very questionable fashion. > Germany's parliament, the Bundestag, has voted to introduce voluntary military service... > The form will be mandatory for men and voluntary for women. > The government says military service will be voluntary for as long as possible, but from July 2027, all 18-year-old men will have to take a medical exam to assess their fitness for possible military…

>mandatory for men and voluntary for women.

this is what "patriarchy" actually looks like but you sure won't see anybody on the left complain about that....

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#210

Post by spwa4 »

WITH the option to make it mandatory by 5 different mechanisms, including options that do not involve lawmakers (but are not mentioned, essentially the executive (normally the chancellor) can also "activate" non-voluntary conscription under various conditions)

Also the Bundestag agreed in advance to activate conscription if not enough volunteers can be found (which, given the results in France, seems about as certain as the sun rising tomorrow)

In fact filling out the questionnaire at all seems risky.

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