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Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

bbc.com

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Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#131

Post by sunshine-o »

nicbou wrote: post #28

To offer a bit of context, the same government just voted to raise current pensions at the expense of steep taxation hikes for current workers, made massive cuts to social services, and is now discussing military service. This generation is rightfully feeling like they're getting a sore deal.

Yes and the question is who does the German state really target to enroll in their "new" army. Because "This generation" has a lot of clearly distinct groups.

So it could be:

- the native young population who are now flocking in the AfD

- the people fighting the AfD in the street

- the second generation immigrants born there

- the very recent immigrants

- a mix of all

Because the alchemy of creating a working army and "esprit de corps" is much harder than in a corporation. You cannot just take a modern managerial approach to creating an army.

A mix of all will end up obviously in a disaster but selecting on any group will end up in a civil war or coup.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#132

Post by watwut »

Bombthecat wrote: post #123
LoFiSamurai wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

High taxes, low salary and the future will have even higher taxes to finance the pensions. But even before that, everyone I know didn't even consider Germany as a potential place. It's either UK, USA, china or even Malaysia.

Lol.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#133

Post by sunshine-o »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #112

Germanys problem is mainly not the number of recruits: The didnt invest for decades, so structures in the background to handle all those additional young recruits are no more existing. Even if they would draw just 25% of evey year, they would not be able to manage it.

> The didnt invest for decades, so structures in the background to handle all those additional young recruits are no more existing.

Yes but remember that was the point.

The career and trained militaries were spending most of their time schooling young people and were not focusing on capabilities. This is why most countries put an end on that nonsense.

So right now you can be sure an enormous amount of personnel in the German army switched focused on running this new "Voluntary service". A voluntary service which will produce at best 1% of workable soldiers.

This makes no sense.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#134

Post by jasonvorhe »

sunshine-o wrote: post #131
nicbou wrote: post #28

To offer a bit of context, the same government just voted to raise current pensions at the expense of steep taxation hikes for current workers, made massive cuts to social services, and is now discussing military service. This generation is rightfully feeling like they're getting a sore deal.

Yes and the question is who does the German state really target to enroll in their "new" army. Because "This generation" has a lot of clearly distinct groups. So it could be: - the native young population who are now flocking in the AfD - the people fighting the AfD in the street - the second generation immigrants born there - the very recent immigrants - a mix of all Because the alchemy of creating a working army an…

Once the economy starts to collapse even more due to rising energy prices/cost of living they'll find enough people for the front. This would be the first war ever where no one showed up. Not going to happen. Bundeswehr has been whitewashed and propped up for years already in spite of being completely incapable of even providing Germany with defense for a prolonged time.

Many IT projects for freelancers in Germany are Bundeswehr/NATO related because they're among the few who hire people right now because of the economic situation.

Once we reach the point where people have to decide if they enlist in order to to keep on feeding their families, that'll sort itself out.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#135

Post by jasonvorhe »

bulbar wrote: post #114
throwawaypath wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Not sure about refugees, but we are for sure in dire need of migration from skilled workers - health care sector is an example. It's still too complicated to migrate and on the other hand it's to still to difficult to remove criminals. The former government improved the situation, but did not fully solve the problem.

This is wrong. I used to work in cafes when I still lived in the city and two locations where close to hospitals and everyone I talked to complained about the risk of employing people with huge language barriers (mostly Ukrainians and Syrians from what I heard) in health related jobs because it has dire consequences if something gets lost in translation. No one of the higher ups cared and they just had to deal with while already being underpaid, overworked and exhausted.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#136

Post by jasonvorhe »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #17

> "We don't want to spend half a year of our lives locked up in barracks, being trained in drill and obedience and learning to kill," the organisers of the protests wrote in a statement posted on social media. "War offers no prospects for the future and destroys our livelihoods." Is the idea that it’s better for your livelihood to just start learning how speak Russian now?

I'd rather learn Russian than to get drilled to shoot Russians. Current Germany/Europe doesn't have anything to offer that I'd raise a weapon for.

Each to their own.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#137

Post by jasonvorhe »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #53
venturecruelty wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of young people look at all of the wars waged post-WWII and are rightfully opposed to fighting for their governments. Would you want to die for nothing in Vietnam? Probably not, and a lot of other people didn't want to as well. Some of them did anyway, and it was all for nothing. So please have some grace if today's kids have looked back at our miserable history and have decided that they'd rather not d…

Putin will happily take over your home, even if you thought Viet Nam was a waste.

Had to imagine Putin moving into someone's 45sqm flat in the suburbs after his evil empire invaded somewhere. Had to chuckle, thanks for that.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#138

Post by citrin_ru »

throw310822 wrote: post #124
venturecruelty wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic move: make the kids struggle, then offer them a lifeline if they just put on a uniform. The GI bill is great, but you shouldn't have to step on an IED to go to college.

[flagged]

Hypersonic missiles is a distraction, the real danger currently comes from mass produced drones (both Shahed and FPV ones) and I’m afraid EU has no good defence against them.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#139

Post by jasonvorhe »

lawn wrote: post #115
appreciatorBus wrote: post #17

> "We don't want to spend half a year of our lives locked up in barracks, being trained in drill and obedience and learning to kill," the organisers of the protests wrote in a statement posted on social media. "War offers no prospects for the future and destroys our livelihoods." Is the idea that it’s better for your livelihood to just start learning how speak Russian now?

Learning to speak Russian, and to live with the massive amount of corruption, prosecution, genocide, and much lower quality of life. Assuming you survive the initial wave of plunder, rape and murder of course.

[flagged]

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#140

Post by jasonvorhe »

geoka9 wrote: post #106
anonym29 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must have missed my comment about opposing the war. But this kind of bad faith accusation is really disappointing to see on HN. The caliber of discourse here is usually much higher - people engaging with the actual merits of the points being raised, not reverting to attacking strawmen that only exist in their head as if this was Facebook. Ordinary Russian and Ukranian people are both victims of this war. It is be…

> You must have missed my comment about opposing the war. You're opposing the war in the same way Russian propaganda "opposes" it: if only Ukraine stopped fighting, so many lives would have been saved! But Ukrainians don't have that choice; if they stop fighting against the Russian aggression, they will be fighting as part of it in a few years when Russia invades the next country over. Not to mention losing their cul…

Ukrainians had a choice as well which is why many of their men and women escaped and are now living in various European neighbouring countries instead of rotting in a ditch somewhere.
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