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Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

bbc.com

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Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#31

Post by JumpCrisscross »

m000 wrote: post #23
bethekidyouwant wrote: post #2

“The change means that all 18-year-olds in Germany will be sent a questionnaire from January 2026 asking if they are interested and willing to join the armed forces. The form will be mandatory for men and voluntary for women.“ - all men have to fill out and return a form, I suppose this will work to increase recruitment. Doesn’t seem very controversial.

The problem here that this probably is only part of a larger society militarization plan. The guaranteed next step is to offer the volunteers a long term paid contract at the end of their term. This would probably be well above what they would be paid elsewhere (young men with no university degree, desperate enough to volunteer in the first place). Run the scheme for a few years, and you will have a large number of,…

> Run the scheme for a few years, and you will have a large number of, young, high-school-level educated people that are financially dependent on the army. Thus, a militarized society

Finland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Austria, Brazil, Chile, Mexico and Thailand each have active conscription [1]. The slippery slop you describe is far from inevitable.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#32

Post by throw310822 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #27
baal80spam wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The form will be mandatory for men and voluntary for women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_men_are_created_equal

One, I'm not sure what American founding ideals have to do with Germany. Two, Germany, like most countries and frankly human populations, has a male surplus in its fighting-age population [1]. This is why, historically, large socities tended to wage war with men first. (Even those that e.g. held elite units in reserve, which undermines the usual biological argument.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_…

The male surplus is a few tens of thousands, way to small to make up an army; and no, that is not the reason why men and not women go to war.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#33

Post by venturecruelty »

nicbou wrote: post #28

To offer a bit of context, the same government just voted to raise current pensions at the expense of steep taxation hikes for current workers, made massive cuts to social services, and is now discussing military service. This generation is rightfully feeling like they're getting a sore deal.

Classic move: make the kids struggle, then offer them a lifeline if they just put on a uniform. The GI bill is great, but you shouldn't have to step on an IED to go to college.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#34

Post by aleph_minus_one »

fabian2k wrote: post #18
mystraline wrote: post #10

The article is using "voluntary" in a very questionable fashion. > Germany's parliament, the Bundestag, has voted to introduce voluntary military service... > The form will be mandatory for men and voluntary for women. > The government says military service will be voluntary for as long as possible, but from July 2027, all 18-year-old men will have to take a medical exam to assess their fitness for possible military…

Military service was only recently abolished in Germany. And compared to the old system, this one would qualify as voluntary for now. This might not remain that way, but that's probably an issue to discuss if and when that happens. There's all kinds of other challenges at that point, and I think at that point challenges based on fairness could be valid (as only some people are drafted, not everyone).

> Military service was only recently abolished in Germany.

Military service was never abolished in Germany. It was only suspended in 2011 (and lots of people were celebrating even this small improvement).

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#35

Post by constantcrying »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #12

[flagged]

Yes, many parts of German cities have a majority of non-germans. This is not uncommon, it doesn't help that the minority of the German youth in those areas is integrating themselves into the immigrant culture.

>The German government is one of the few on Earth that seems to actually hate its native populace.

They certainly don't hate the pensioners or the people on welfare. Just the native youth, which will have to bear the burden for all of this, but does not get to decide.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#36

Post by anonym29 »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #17

> "We don't want to spend half a year of our lives locked up in barracks, being trained in drill and obedience and learning to kill," the organisers of the protests wrote in a statement posted on social media. "War offers no prospects for the future and destroys our livelihoods." Is the idea that it’s better for your livelihood to just start learning how speak Russian now?

[flagged]

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#37

Post by venturecruelty »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #17

> "We don't want to spend half a year of our lives locked up in barracks, being trained in drill and obedience and learning to kill," the organisers of the protests wrote in a statement posted on social media. "War offers no prospects for the future and destroys our livelihoods." Is the idea that it’s better for your livelihood to just start learning how speak Russian now?

I think a lot of young people look at all of the wars waged post-WWII and are rightfully opposed to fighting for their governments. Would you want to die for nothing in Vietnam? Probably not, and a lot of other people didn't want to as well. Some of them did anyway, and it was all for nothing.

So please have some grace if today's kids have looked back at our miserable history and have decided that they'd rather not die for a country that doesn't seem to give a shit about them.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#38

Post by aleph_minus_one »

appreciatorBus wrote: post #17

> "We don't want to spend half a year of our lives locked up in barracks, being trained in drill and obedience and learning to kill," the organisers of the protests wrote in a statement posted on social media. "War offers no prospects for the future and destroys our livelihoods." Is the idea that it’s better for your livelihood to just start learning how speak Russian now?

[flagged]

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#39

Post by crooked-v »

baal80spam wrote: post #16
mystraline wrote: post #10

The article is using "voluntary" in a very questionable fashion. > Germany's parliament, the Bundestag, has voted to introduce voluntary military service... > The form will be mandatory for men and voluntary for women. > The government says military service will be voluntary for as long as possible, but from July 2027, all 18-year-old men will have to take a medical exam to assess their fitness for possible military…

> The form will be mandatory for men and voluntary for women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_men_are_created_equal

Registration is compulsory, but actual military service is voluntary (for now).

In other words, it's functionally the same as Selective Service forms in the US.

Re: Germany votes to bring in voluntary military service programme for 18-year-olds

#40

Post by fabian2k »

venturecruelty wrote: post #37
appreciatorBus wrote: post #17

> "We don't want to spend half a year of our lives locked up in barracks, being trained in drill and obedience and learning to kill," the organisers of the protests wrote in a statement posted on social media. "War offers no prospects for the future and destroys our livelihoods." Is the idea that it’s better for your livelihood to just start learning how speak Russian now?

I think a lot of young people look at all of the wars waged post-WWII and are rightfully opposed to fighting for their governments. Would you want to die for nothing in Vietnam? Probably not, and a lot of other people didn't want to as well. Some of them did anyway, and it was all for nothing. So please have some grace if today's kids have looked back at our miserable history and have decided that they'd rather not d…

Germany didn't fight in Vietnam.
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