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Detainees at 'Alligator Alcatraz' facing 'harrowing human right violations'

theguardian.com

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Re: Detainees at 'Alligator Alcatraz' facing 'harrowing human right violations'

#21

Post by pupppet »

RickJWagner wrote: post #20
foogazi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The evil ones are the people that Do these people even exist? Because we know who design, built and allowed this to happen But your statement not only shifts the blame to some disconnected group, it absolves the only people with direct action from the guilt associated with it

Of course they exist. The immigrants that were sent to Martha’s Vineyard were immediately escorted elsewhere, under care of the National Guard. ( Money can do those sort of things. ) The desire to house immigrants often seems to apply to locales removed from the ‘good people’ espousing the immigration. The truly evil ones are the hypocrites that want to seem virtuous, but don’t want to do any of the messy part themse…

This is a juvenile take. You can’t ship a group of people to a random location in the US and say OK you live here now.

Re: Detainees at 'Alligator Alcatraz' facing 'harrowing human right violations'

#22

Post by RickJWagner »

pupppet wrote: post #21
RickJWagner wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they exist. The immigrants that were sent to Martha’s Vineyard were immediately escorted elsewhere, under care of the National Guard. ( Money can do those sort of things. ) The desire to house immigrants often seems to apply to locales removed from the ‘good people’ espousing the immigration. The truly evil ones are the hypocrites that want to seem virtuous, but don’t want to do any of the messy part themse…

This is a juvenile take. You can’t ship a group of people to a random location in the US and say OK you live here now.

Sure you can.

Just as easy as you can live in a wealthy enclave, far from the messy logistics of processing immigrants while virtue signaling that the unfortunate hosts are bad people for saying ‘slow down’. The level of entitlement is appalling.

Just exactly where do you propose the immigrants should live? Designated places far from the nice, wealthy enclaves?

Re: Detainees at 'Alligator Alcatraz' facing 'harrowing human right violations'

#23

Post by mindslight »

RickJWagner wrote: post #20
foogazi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The evil ones are the people that Do these people even exist? Because we know who design, built and allowed this to happen But your statement not only shifts the blame to some disconnected group, it absolves the only people with direct action from the guilt associated with it

Of course they exist. The immigrants that were sent to Martha’s Vineyard were immediately escorted elsewhere, under care of the National Guard. ( Money can do those sort of things. ) The desire to house immigrants often seems to apply to locales removed from the ‘good people’ espousing the immigration. The truly evil ones are the hypocrites that want to seem virtuous, but don’t want to do any of the messy part themse…

You're complaining about alleged hypocrisy of Martha's Vineyard finding places for people who were literally sent away from Texas as a political stunt. They were dropped off by one-way chartered flights, with no real destination, on an island with a small tourist economy where supplies basically arrive by boat. And then you're feigning outrage from the government having to get involved to provide them shelter and services!

There might have been a legitimate point if Tiny DickSantis had found them places to stay (paid or otherwise), but yet they were made to move on. But the only things you're demonstrating are your needs to stop being so gullible and to examine your own filter bubble.

Re: Detainees at 'Alligator Alcatraz' facing 'harrowing human right violations'

#24

Post by pratyushnair01 »

OutOfHere wrote: post #15

I don't understand the point in detaining immigrants indefinitely. If they're in the country illegally, they must be put on the first flight to their home country. If they're not illegal, they must be freed. No one needs to be detained for more than 48 hours. Their humanitarian and medical requirements must be fully met. Civilized countries do not allow for indefinite detention.

Free/cheap labor in private prisons is the end goal I assume.

Re: Detainees at 'Alligator Alcatraz' facing 'harrowing human right violations'

#25

Post by RickJWagner »

mindslight wrote: post #23
RickJWagner wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they exist. The immigrants that were sent to Martha’s Vineyard were immediately escorted elsewhere, under care of the National Guard. ( Money can do those sort of things. ) The desire to house immigrants often seems to apply to locales removed from the ‘good people’ espousing the immigration. The truly evil ones are the hypocrites that want to seem virtuous, but don’t want to do any of the messy part themse…

You're complaining about alleged hypocrisy of Martha's Vineyard finding places for people who were literally sent away from Texas as a political stunt. They were dropped off by one-way chartered flights, with no real destination, on an island with a small tourist economy where supplies basically arrive by boat. And then you're feigning outrage from the government having to get involved to provide them shelter and ser…

Here is a speech about illegal immigration from President Obama. He describes the problems caused by excess immigration. He also describes how he was stepping up efforts to stop illegal immigration and to deport those already over the border.

Do you think Obama was wrong, and was he evil in your eyes? Remember, he used ICE exactly the same way Trump is using ICE. ICE leadership is even the same team Obama used.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/1...

Re: Detainees at 'Alligator Alcatraz' facing 'harrowing human right violations'

#26

Post by mindslight »

RickJWagner wrote: post #25
mindslight wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're complaining about alleged hypocrisy of Martha's Vineyard finding places for people who were literally sent away from Texas as a political stunt. They were dropped off by one-way chartered flights, with no real destination, on an island with a small tourist economy where supplies basically arrive by boat. And then you're feigning outrage from the government having to get involved to provide them shelter and ser…

Here is a speech about illegal immigration from President Obama. He describes the problems caused by excess immigration. He also describes how he was stepping up efforts to stop illegal immigration and to deport those already over the border. Do you think Obama was wrong, and was he evil in your eyes? Remember, he used ICE exactly the same way Trump is using ICE. ICE leadership is even the same team Obama used. https…

How is any of that related to what I said?

Re: Detainees at 'Alligator Alcatraz' facing 'harrowing human right violations'

#27

Post by conception »

RickJWagner wrote: post #25
mindslight wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're complaining about alleged hypocrisy of Martha's Vineyard finding places for people who were literally sent away from Texas as a political stunt. They were dropped off by one-way chartered flights, with no real destination, on an island with a small tourist economy where supplies basically arrive by boat. And then you're feigning outrage from the government having to get involved to provide them shelter and ser…

Here is a speech about illegal immigration from President Obama. He describes the problems caused by excess immigration. He also describes how he was stepping up efforts to stop illegal immigration and to deport those already over the border. Do you think Obama was wrong, and was he evil in your eyes? Remember, he used ICE exactly the same way Trump is using ICE. ICE leadership is even the same team Obama used. https…

“Exactly the same way” is doing a world class job of work as a phrase here.

Re: Detainees at 'Alligator Alcatraz' facing 'harrowing human right violations'

#28

Post by OutOfHere »

pratyushnair01 wrote: post #24
OutOfHere wrote: post #15

I don't understand the point in detaining immigrants indefinitely. If they're in the country illegally, they must be put on the first flight to their home country. If they're not illegal, they must be freed. No one needs to be detained for more than 48 hours. Their humanitarian and medical requirements must be fully met. Civilized countries do not allow for indefinite detention.

Free/cheap labor in private prisons is the end goal I assume.

I think the prison complex has been benefiting hugely from it. Every extra day in detention is very rewarding for the entity behind the complex. Taxpayer money has to pay for it for now.

Re: Detainees at 'Alligator Alcatraz' facing 'harrowing human right violations'

#29

Post by RickJWagner »

conception wrote: post #27
RickJWagner wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a speech about illegal immigration from President Obama. He describes the problems caused by excess immigration. He also describes how he was stepping up efforts to stop illegal immigration and to deport those already over the border. Do you think Obama was wrong, and was he evil in your eyes? Remember, he used ICE exactly the same way Trump is using ICE. ICE leadership is even the same team Obama used. https…

“Exactly the same way” is doing a world class job of work as a phrase here.

In what way do they differ? Tactics?

Re: Detainees at 'Alligator Alcatraz' facing 'harrowing human right violations'

#30

Post by RickJWagner »

mindslight wrote: post #26
RickJWagner wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a speech about illegal immigration from President Obama. He describes the problems caused by excess immigration. He also describes how he was stepping up efforts to stop illegal immigration and to deport those already over the border. Do you think Obama was wrong, and was he evil in your eyes? Remember, he used ICE exactly the same way Trump is using ICE. ICE leadership is even the same team Obama used. https…

How is any of that related to what I said?

It’s providing context. To understand DeSantis’ motivation, you have to understand the context.

Biden had sharply changed direction from what prior administrations had done, including Obamas. Biden did not only fail to secure the border ( he claimed only Congress could do that, which Trump definitively disproved ), but he even sold off materials being used to build the border. Remember the huge caravans of immigrants arriving and passing through the border? Governors of states most affected were doing their best to protect their constituents.

Biden would not listen to reason. He continued to defy precedent and logic ( again, completely reversing Obamas actions ). He needed a wake up call.

That’s why DeSantis did what he did. The people of Martha’s Vinyard played perfect stooges, using the National Guard to move the immigrants out of their back yard immediately.

Now for you. Was Obama evil for doing what every other president except Biden did? Were the people that voted for Obama evil?

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