181–190 of 360 posts
Vaccines benefit the population, at the expense of the individual
Vaccines benefit both! Not dying or even really getting sick from preventable but horrific diseases is a huge benefit to the individual!
I found the intro very confusing, tbh. Particularly the "no increased risk of all-cause mortality". I mean, if we assume the vaccines worked, we'd certainly expect a decreased risk of all-case mortality (because "all-case mortality" certainly includes "covid mortality"). Reading "no increase" seems to imply "it doesn't change anything". Yeah, technically, the sentence does not say that ("no increase" can mean "no dec…
The problem is that 25% lower risk of all-cause mortality is too big to be explained solely by the vaccine. The reduction is similar when excluding deaths due to COVID-19, and is probably driven by people who got the vaccine being different in some ways that the observational study isn’t controlling for.
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Are there really antivax people that would know the word "covariate?" That's gotta be a small Venn diagram overlap.
Antivaxers surpisingly know quite a lot of lingo. What they lack is an understanding of experimental methods.
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Because this whole paper is bullshit and is a bias confirmation report It assesses persons "who were alive on November 1, 2021" That tantamount to saying "for people alive January 1st 1950, the Second World War was not a significant cause of mortality" Can you see how ridiculous that sounds?
While you are being downvoted, this is actually an astute observation. However, your point is working against you in this case. If the vaccine was actually deadly, the unvaccinated individuals who survived the pandemic would be having better health outcomes. This is not what they found. If they included the pandemic in this study, the deaths by COVID would be much worse in the unvaccinated group.
Unfortunately, I don't think any additional evidence will convince vaccine skeptics of the safety of mRNA vaccines
"Skeptics" is a very kind term for these people. I bet my life if you polled these people, they have not read any material on the matter.
We should not forget, that in most countries people who were unvaccinated came under severe social pressure. They often lost their jobs or got banned from social circles. You were basically rendered an outcast by not being vaccinated. So taking the vaccine did not only affect your immune system, but also gave you a higher social status. And there are plenty of studies that show that a lower social status significantl…
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doing a double blind study of a vaccine that seems to work very well for a potentially lethal disease seems morally questionable
> seems to work very well for a potentially lethal disease not lethal for all age groups, we already knew it well before the vaccine was introduced. People may have short memories, the vaccine came almost a year after the disease was out, and we knew very well by then that it did not kill everyone, broadly.
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The reduction in all-cause mortality was independent of covid deaths. Which seems to suggest that there was big differences between the groups other than the vaccination. This of course does not change that the vaccine seems mostly safe, but it definitely calls in to question whether the protection against covid death was vaccine-mediated or due to some other difference between the groups. Therefore this paper is mod…
The simple explanation is that the causal agent for the excees of the non-covid deaths is the same SARS-CoV2 virus, but death comes later and not at the acute phase of the disease.
Not sure it follows so cleanly with the actual study setup
Vaccines benefit the population, at the expense of the individual
But with Covid-19 vaccination wasn't able to eliminate its spread so it mostly is about protecting yourself rather than protecting others.
I have to admit I checked the author on this paper. No surprise it is from outside of the US. It's hard to imagine a US institution releasing a scientific study that directly contradicts the administration's viewpoints out of fear of reprisal via loss of funding or even shakedowns. I just hope this doesn't elicit some unhinged Truth Social post about evil Frenchmen trying to poison our bodies.