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Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

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Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#741

Post by MangoToupe »

jchw wrote: post #73
ZiiS wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works in the sense it allows you to run the game; but it does not prevent cheating. Obviously, Window's kernel anti-cheet is also only partially effective anyway, but the point of open-source is to give you control which includes cheating if you want to. Linux's profiling is just too good; full well documented sources for all libraries and kernel, even the graphics are running through easier to understand translat…

Anti-cheat is a misnomer; it's much more about detecting cheats more than it is preventing them. For people who are familiar with how modern anti-cheat systems work, actually cheating is really the easy part; trying to remain undetected is the challenge. Because of that, usermode anti-cheat is definitely far from useless in Wine; it can still function insofar as it tries to monitor the process space of the game itsel…

Motivated cheaters will just hook into PCI directly. Cheating is just part of pc gaming.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#742

Post by kasey_junk »

noirscape wrote: post #714
kasey_junk wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You hypothesis then is that there is not a _single_ public company that has a healthy relationship with its company? Not one, in the entire global public space? When does this relationship with customers happen? Is it at the IPO? When they file the paperwork? When they contemplate going public for the first time? Or is it that any founder who might one day decide to contemplate going public was doomed to unhealthy cu…

It's not impossible to run a publicly owned company in the US that isn't insanely hostile towards it's customers or employees... it's just really damn difficult because of bad legal precedent. Dodge v. Ford is basically the source of all these headaches; the Dodge Brothers owned shares in Ford. Ford refused to pay the dividends he had to pay to the Dodge Brothers, suspecting that they'd use the dividends to start the…

It is not broadly believed in corporate governance circles that there is a legal requirement to maximize shareholder value. Nor will you find court judgements that require it.

If anything Milton Friedman is more responsible for this idea that shareholder maximizing is the corporate goal. That is an efficient market argument though not a legal one and he framed it long after the dodge suit. He needed to frame that argument because so many firms were _not_ doing that.

But just because a Chicago school economist says something about governance doesn’t mean it’s broadly applicable in the same way an Austrian economists opinions about inflation aren’t iron rules about monetary policy.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#743

Post by Gormo »

dmos62 wrote: post #740
Gormo wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everything valve doing for linux is making such a huge impact. Some of it is counter-productive though. Proton made WINE commercially viable, and in doing so, disincentivized native Linux builds of games to the point that some studios that had been releasing games natively for Linux have stopped doing so, since the Windows version now plays well enough under Linux.

So it became more straightforward to release games on Linux? Sounds like a positive. Or, is the gripe about distinction of released for vs playable on?

> So it became more straightforward to release games on Linux? Sounds like a positive.

No, not really. Many of the common game engines already support Linux out of the box. Unity, for example, already makes building for Linux basically equivalent to building for Windows or Mac. Proton has disincentivized building for Linux even in cases where doing so is already as straightforward and low-effort as could be.

> Or, is the gripe about distinction of released for vs playable on?

Yes. Most of these games were already playable on Linux under Wine, even if it took a bit more effort on the part of the user to get things up and running. The rise in Linux usage started motivating native Linux ports for a few years, and there's a large library of native Linux games out there. But Proton has been removing the incentives to build native Linux ports by making that Windows compatibility "just work".

The result is now that there are more games where Linux compatibility still running on top of an emulation layer -- but one that's a bit less straightforward for users to configure directly as they would with Wine -- and a bit less performant than they might otherwise be.

It also means that Linux compatibility for these games is more closely coupled to the Steam ecosystem. Whereas a game with a native Linux build might distribute that build through Steam, GOG, Humble, itch.io, etc., now the non-Steam platforms have only Windows builds. Sure, these can usually still be played under Wine in the traditional fashion, but that represents a regression away from native Linux support.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#744

Post by arcfour »

idiotsecant wrote: post #733
panick21_ wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the issues with founders is that they get really into one specific idea and sink the company, rather then to switch strategy.

As opposed to shareholders, who ravenously seek to maximize short term profits and sink the company.

That's why there are no publicly-traded companies more than a decade or two old. Oh, wait...

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#745

Post by lsaferite »

goosejuice wrote: post #561
TulliusCicero wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aren't people upset about both? I'm sure a few people are, but typically no. People are aware that trading card games can be a monetary black hole, but Magic and similar games usually don't take the same heat for the business model that Valve does for loot boxes, even though they're actually worse on paper. > They've long dismissed the mobile scene as lost. I'm not talking about the mobile market. Are you not aware…

> usually don't take the same heat for the business model that Valve does for loot boxes, even though they're actually worse on paper. This is a weird claim. TCG/CCG is far worse than Valve's loot boxes. It's not even close. MTG Arena is huge btw, it's not a footnote.

Their point was that WotC doesn't get the same flak that Value does when MtG is worse, by far, than cosmetic loot boxes.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#746

Post by Gormo »

tombert wrote: post #229
adverbly wrote: post #98

Everything valve doing for linux is making such a huge impact. The HL3 memes don't even seem fair to use anymore. I don't even want to un-seriously make joke fun of them at this point. They are just genuinely doing so much for the community.

I love Proton and I like Steam and Valve definitely has done a lot of good for the FOSS world, but let’s not make the same mistakes we made with Google by worshipping a company. All it takes is new management to change the policies to make the company horrible and evil, and in the case of Google people made the realization far too late, and now Google owns too much of the internet to avoid.

A "company" is just an organizational model employed by people to pursue the intentions that those people have. It goes without saying that large endeavors involving many people will have a mixture of good and bad intentions.

Opposing all organized endeavors simply because they have the potential to pursue bad intentions essentially resolves to being against anything anyone is ever doing, which is more than a little bit pointless.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#747

Post by nottorp »

mikkupikku wrote: post #692
nottorp wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you fight game challenges Like "kill 100.000 mobs" ? With the 2 options you have left because those are all the buttons :) And autoaim because those sticks aren't precise enough. But it's not first person shooters I worry about, because those have devolved into competitive multiplayer IAP fests that create toxic communities. I worry about strategy games and anything with a whiff of complexity. Reduce options becaus…

I genuinely think you're hallucinating this threat to keyboard/mouse gaming input for anything other than AAA console-first releases and for specific genres like action/fighting games. Keyboard/mouse is still by far the dominant input scheme for PC gaming and PC gamers are broadly quite firmly set on this choice.

You’re sure developers won’t feel guided to get the steam deck and steam box badges for their titles to ensure more sales?

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#748

Post by coldpie »

trueno wrote: post #672
coldpie wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, nothing like that. We explored shipping Proton for macOS early on, but decided it wasn't where we wanted to spend our time, so we removed it[1] to focus on Linux. There's only so many hours in the day, and supporting two platforms is a lot more work than one. [1] https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/commit/a84120449d817...

wtf take my money expand your team!!!

That's what CrossOver is for :)

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#749

Post by peppersghost93 »

positron26 wrote: post #470
ghurtado wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not unique to AI though. That's very common for tech startups. If they keep doing it, it must be because sometimes it works.

What doesn't work are the predictions of Uber's collapse, of which there were many, cheered on by a great deal who still gather here looking for the next things to see through.

Uber actually has a service that's worth paying for. I can't say I feel the same about most AI slop factories.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#750

Post by literallywho »

nialv7 wrote: post #688
aperture147 wrote: post #630

I think Valve is not some kind of God who free the human from the hand of Microsoft, they are a private company, they are just protecting their business and protecting their business "accidentally" also protecting the customer's benefits. The movement towards Linux benefits Valve the most since they have invested on Linux Gaming for 10 years now and that movement "conveniently" benefits the gamers too. That's a win-w…

I always think Valve as the "ideal" capitalist company, because what they do fits the idea of "invisible hand" perfectly, that each individual acting in their own self-interest end up benefiting everyone. And you'd be right, that Valve is nothing special, if that idea is correct, because in that case most companies will be like Valve. But just look around, do you see many companies like Valve? No, that's because capi…

It’s funny, because Zach Barth (of SpaceChem and many other wonderful games fame) worked at Valve and then described them as the ideal anarcho-communist type of organization.
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