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Micron Announces Exit from Crucial Consumer Business

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Re: Micron Announces Exit from Crucial Consumer Business

#301

I'm sad. I'm a software guy, not much of a hardware expert, so please bear with me if I"m too pessimistic. However, I feel that if trends like this continue, it might be the end of enthusiast-level personal computing as we know it. No more being able to head down to the electronics store and purchase RAM, motherboards, processors, GPUs, storage, and other components. We're going to be limited to locked-down terminals…

I think you should split the problem into hardware and software parts:

- Hardware

We won't have any hardware without secure boot and we won't have the signing keys. Signed firmware is required for everything x86, everything Apple, everything mobile, probably everything ARM too. Rockchip ARM could still boot without signed firmware last time I checked a few years ago, but I'm not sure about the newer CPUs.

[ Short story: I have an Asus Tinkerboard S. It came with an unprovisioned emmc onboard. Just empty. A few years ago I made the mistake of trying the official OS from Asus. It automatically set up the CPU to boot from emmc first and provisioned the emmc with boot0, boot1 and rpmb. These partitions can't be written and can't be removed. Their creation is a one-way operation according to emmc standards. Now I have to keep the emmc masked because it won't boot otherwise. So beware of any devices with emmc. ]

You can, of course, use MCUs for general computing today. ESP32 is pretty powerful - it's probably 4 times faster than a 486, certainly more powerful than an i386 or a 68000 you suggested. The big problem here is memory, graphics and software. No MMU requires a completely new OS. Linux (uclinux) could boot at some point without a MMU, but it won't fit in 540KB memory. MCUs can access external memory (PSRAM), but via slow buses and it's paged. Also there are no hi-speed buses for graphics.

There is some hope coming from the chinese CPUs. AFAIK, they don't support secure boot at all. I'm planning on getting one as soon as their proprietary firmware/UEFI/ACPI and be replaced by uboot.

- Software

It's useless to make a i386 or 68000 today. There's nothing but old software for them. Not even linux has i386 support anymore. This is an even bigger problem than hardware. Much, much bigger. To have any hope of a minimally useful computing platform, we need a working browser on that platform. This is an absolute requirement. There's no way around this. I had to abandon Win98, then WinXP, and soon Win7 because of no working browser.

Linux is generally usable today, but as soon as Linus retires, it's going to fall into the same user-lockdown like all others. The basic infrastructure is all in place: secure boot, root login basically deprecated, access rights and security settings administered by the distro and package manager, not the user, no per-program firewall rules, automatic updates as standard, surveillance infrastructure via udev (hardware events), dbus (software events) and gtk accessibility (input events), etc. Linus fought hard to keep them outside the kernel, but he won't live forever.

To have any hope of privacy and/or freedom our personal computers we need to turn the security paradigm completely on it's head: users are not the threat - programs are. The user should login as root (or system account in Windows) and every program, including services, should run under their own limited accounts with no access to the rest of the system, especially user's files.

Of all OSs today, Gentoo portage is probably the easiest package manager to tweak into creating accounts and groups for programs instead of users and Gobo Linux has the best separation of programs in it's filesystem. I'd love to see a merger of these two.

Hobbyist computing? Ha! First get a browser working.

Re: Micron Announces Exit from Crucial Consumer Business

#302
post #282

And it seems Supermicro also stopped selling standalone motherboards. https://www.spectrumsourcing.com/spectrum-news-feed/industry...

Oh snap, that's crazy. In a bad way.

> Going forward, customers must order the full server system to obtain the motherboard.

Re: Micron Announces Exit from Crucial Consumer Business

#303
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm curious where you live. Anecdotally, this is the opposite to the experience of everyone I know. Actually, his experience is the standard PC enthusiast experience for the vast majority of DIY'ers in many nations. And is now subject to threat if businesses catering to consumers shut-down.

> Actually, his experience is the standard PC enthusiast experience for the vast majority of DIY'ers in many nations. I have to genuinely question this. I haven't heard of anyone I know buying PC components at a physical store in like 20 years, and I know people from various nations.

I usually buy my cables there since the price difference for brand cables is negligible and I like to have my cable actually do the rated specs. Full pc parts no, but then again I usually buy niche parts not widely available. I usually go to the small repair shop first, and if they don't have any to the big brand. Small shop is a bit more expensive but the guy can order specialized small parts (printer memory module comes to mind) if you ask nicely and even directed you to other shops. Medium sized 100k+ city in NW Europe.

Re: Micron Announces Exit from Crucial Consumer Business

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots have even in America. 2 famous ones are the NIH and the National Laboratories. In fact, the largest, most advanced, and best known semiconductor manufacturer is primarily government owned: TSMC. The only thing that gets in the way of their ability to sustain innovation is administrations hostile to publicly funded research. Outside of innovative industries, there are plenty of examples of important government ra…

TSMC is not primarily government owned. Not only that, there was government-led chip research in Taiwan before TSMC (ITRI). And it was going nowhere. If Morris had stayed in ITRI, Taiwan would probably look like a developing country whose primary value is to host the US military bases today.

TSMC's largest shareholder remains the Taiwanese government. And it would not have been a thing without the direct intervention of the government through ITRI.

It would not exist without the government's direct intervention.

Re: Micron Announces Exit from Crucial Consumer Business

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen things going the opposite way. It's only recently that an average person could jump on eBay and get assembled low-level electronic module/boards for cheap, and assemble into their project. Yes, you'll probably have difficulty walking into a STORE to buy PC components, but only because online shopping has been killing local shops for decades now. You'll find it easy to get that stuff online, for better price…

Not my experience. I've been able to go to a local store to buy PC components for more than 35 years now and last did to upgrade the RAM in the laptop to be eligible for Win11. Online only was not cheaper and local store had it available same day. Local store does have online presence and is a chain tho. Mouse replacement on a weekend coz old one broke same story (button smashed in and not usable at all any longer).…

You're lucky then. Hardware availability has increased by orders of magnitude for me — not an exaggeration. Even 10-15 years ago I'd be happy to have access to two motherboards, three CPUs, three video cards — all of them at least a generation old, and Intel + nvidia, nothing else — and cheap noname RAM/SSDs. Over the past 5-8 years I've mostly been able to get access to the same hardware y'all are buying, thanks only to increased pervasiveness of online shopping.

Brick and mortar stores are as useless as they've always been. Even now they're selling old hardware (couple of generations old or older) for more than it was ever worth. For example, one such store not far from me has been trying to offload a 12-year old LCD monitor for several years now, for two times of its original price. I wonder why.

Re: Micron Announces Exit from Crucial Consumer Business

#308
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not my experience. I've been able to go to a local store to buy PC components for more than 35 years now and last did to upgrade the RAM in the laptop to be eligible for Win11. Online only was not cheaper and local store had it available same day. Local store does have online presence and is a chain tho. Mouse replacement on a weekend coz old one broke same story (button smashed in and not usable at all any longer).…

I'm curious where you live. Anecdotally, this is the opposite to the experience of everyone I know.

Not OP. But Microcenter is in many US cities and prides itself on 18 minute pickup. I buy most of my tech that way.

Re: Micron Announces Exit from Crucial Consumer Business

#310
post #282

And it seems Supermicro also stopped selling standalone motherboards. https://www.spectrumsourcing.com/spectrum-news-feed/industry...

Oh snap, that's crazy. In a bad way. > Going forward, customers must order the full server system to obtain the motherboard.

I have a home server with one of their X11 boards, it is almost 8 years old. It is a bad time to upgrade but once I do it will have to be one from ASrock Rack I guess.
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