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OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

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Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#881

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that just like in the US, Chinese decision-makers are increasingly voicing concerns about unrealistic assumptions, valuations, and expectations around the capabilities of AI/ML. You can be optimistic about the value of agentic workflows or domain specific applications of LLMs but at the same time recognize that something like AGI is horseshit techno-millenarianism. I myself have made a pretty successful…

> The point about Solow's Paradox is that the gains of certain high productivity technologies do not provide society-wide economic benefit Some people certainly argue that about the computer age, and it’s not totally unsupported. But I don’t think the evidence for that interpretation (as opposed to a delayed effect) is strong enough that I’d want to automatically generalize it to a new information technology advance.…

> To be clear, I don’t think China’s reticence is necessarily wrongheaded. But “we will usher in an age of undisputed dominance in a decade or two instead of right now from this investment” is a weird argument, especially from a government as ostensibly long-term focused as China

The most important priority for any government is political stability. In China's case, the local and regional government fiscal crisis is the primary concern because every yuan spent on subsidizing an industry is also a yuan taken away from social spending - which is entirely the responsibility of local governments after the Deng reforms. This is why despite China being a large economy has only just caught up to Iran and Thailand's developmental indicators in the past 2-3 years.

The meme of a "long-term focused China" is just that - a meme. Setting grand targets and incentivizing the entire party cadre to meet those targets or goals is leading to increasingly inefficient deployments of limited capital and led to two massive bubbles busting in the past 5 years (real estate and EVs). The Chinese government doesn't want a third one, and is increasingly trying to push for capital to be deployed to social services instead of promotion-targeted initiatives.

Also, read Chinese pronouncements in the actual Putonghua - the translations in English make bog standard pronouncements sound magnanimous because most people who haven't heard or read a large number of Chinese government pronouncements don't understand how they tend to be structure and written as well as the tone used.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#882

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The point about Solow's Paradox is that the gains of certain high productivity technologies do not provide society-wide economic benefit Some people certainly argue that about the computer age, and it’s not totally unsupported. But I don’t think the evidence for that interpretation (as opposed to a delayed effect) is strong enough that I’d want to automatically generalize it to a new information technology advance.…

> To be clear, I don’t think China’s reticence is necessarily wrongheaded. But “we will usher in an age of undisputed dominance in a decade or two instead of right now from this investment” is a weird argument, especially from a government as ostensibly long-term focused as China The most important priority for any government is political stability. In China's case, the local and regional government fiscal crisis is…

Oh I don’t doubt any of this - it’s just that you don’t usually see the CCP publicly making arguments that they need to sacrifice the long term for the short term. They have a brand for how they public ally justify their decisions, and it’s definitely about the inevitable, long arc of Chinese history of whatever.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#883
post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Google, Meta, Amazon, etc... can't do software? It's the bread and butter of these companies. The CUDA moat is important to hold off the likes of AMD, but hardware like TPUs for internal use or other big software makers is not a big hurdle. Of course Huang will lean on the software being key because he sees the hardware competition catching up.

Essentially, yes, they haven’t done deep software. Netflix probably comes closest amongst FAANG. Google, Meta, Amazon do “shallow and broad” software. They are quite fast at capturing new markets swiftly, they frequently repackage OpenSource core and add the large amount of business logic to make it work, but essentially follow the market cycles - they hire and layoff on a few year cycle, and the people who work ther…

You're suggesting Waymo isn't deep software? Or Tensorflow? Or Android? The Go programming language? Or MapReduce, AlphaGo, Kubernetes, the transformer, Chrome/Chromium or Gvisor?

You must have an amazing CV to think these are shallow projects.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#884

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be clear, I don’t think China’s reticence is necessarily wrongheaded. But “we will usher in an age of undisputed dominance in a decade or two instead of right now from this investment” is a weird argument, especially from a government as ostensibly long-term focused as China The most important priority for any government is political stability. In China's case, the local and regional government fiscal crisis is…

Oh I don’t doubt any of this - it’s just that you don’t usually see the CCP publicly making arguments that they need to sacrifice the long term for the short term. They have a brand for how they public ally justify their decisions, and it’s definitely about the inevitable, long arc of Chinese history of whatever.

> it’s just that you don’t usually see the CCP publicly making arguments that they need to sacrifice the long term for the short term

They do.

These kinds of statements and discussions happen all the time - in Chinese. The "long-termism" trope is largely an English language one because outsiders either severely degrade or severely fawn Chinese policymaking. Additionally, because most outsiders don't speak or understand Chinese, the spectre of China is often used as a rhetorical device to help drive decisionmaking and using "long-termism" is an easy device for that. A similar thing used to be used with Japan in the 1980s and Germany in the 2000s.

And what actually is the long term value of investing tens of billions in (eg.) AGI versus a similar amount in subsidized healthcare expansion in China? Applications based usescases and domain specific usecases of AI/ML have shown the most success from an outcomes perspective for both National Security and Economic usecases.

AI/ML has a lot of value, but a large amount of the promise is unrealistic for the valuations provided in both the US and China. THe issue is in China, an AI bubble bursting risks leaving local and regional governments holding the bag like during the real estate crisis because the vast majority of capital deployed in subsidizes came from regional and local government's budgets, and takes a large amount of capital away from social service expansion.

For a lot of Chinese leadership, the biggest worry is Japanification, which itself set itself due to the three-way punch of the 1985 Endaka recession, the 1990 Asset Bubble bust, and the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis. Much of China's financial leadership and regulators started their careers managing the blowback of these crises in China during that era or were scholars on them. As such, Chinese regulators are increasingly trying to pop bubbles sooner rather than later especially after the past experiences dealing with the 2015-16 market crash and the Evergrande crisis. Irrational exuberance around AI is increasingly being viewed through that lens as well.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#885

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the fact they had to resort to forking Chrome because they couldn’t engineer a browser folks wanted to use is pretty telling.

I don't think that tells us anything. Maintaining a web browser requires about 1000 full-time developers (about the size of the Chrome team at Google) i.e., about $400 million a year. Why would Microsoft incur that cost when Chromium is available under a license that allows Microsoft to do whatever it wants with it?

You could say the same thing about all Microsoft products then. How many full time developers does it take to support Windows 11 when Linux is available, SqlServer when Postgres is available, Office when LibreOffice exists?

And so on all under licenses that allows Microsoft do whatever it wants with?

They should be embarrassed to do better, not spin it into a “wise business move” aka transfer that money into executive bonuses.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#886

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that tells us anything. Maintaining a web browser requires about 1000 full-time developers (about the size of the Chrome team at Google) i.e., about $400 million a year. Why would Microsoft incur that cost when Chromium is available under a license that allows Microsoft to do whatever it wants with it?

You could say the same thing about all Microsoft products then. How many full time developers does it take to support Windows 11 when Linux is available, SqlServer when Postgres is available, Office when LibreOffice exists? And so on all under licenses that allows Microsoft do whatever it wants with? They should be embarrassed to do better, not spin it into a “wise business move” aka transfer that money into executiv…

Microsoft gets a lot of its revenue from the sale of licenses and subscriptions for Windows and Office. An unreliable source that gives fast answers to questions tells me that the segments responsible for those two softwares have revenue of about $13 and about 20 billion per quarter respectively.

In contrast, basically no one derives any significant revenue from the sale of licenses or subscriptions for web browsers. As long as Microsoft can modify Chromium to have Microsoft's branding, to nag the user into using Microsoft Copilot and to direct search queries to Bing instead of Google Search, why should Microsoft care about web browsers?

It gets worse. Any browser Microsoft offers needs to work well on almost any web site. These web sites (of which there are 100s of 1000s) in turn are maintained by developers (hi, web devs!) that tend to be eager to embrace any new technology Google puts into Chrome, with the result that Microsoft must responding by putting the same technological capabilities into its own web browser. Note that the same does not hold for Windows: there is no competitor to Microsoft offering a competitor to Windows that is constantly inducing the maintainers of Windows applications to embrace new technologies, requiring Microsoft to incur the expense of applying engineering pressure to Windows to keep up. This suggests to me that maintaining Windows is actually significantly cheaper than it would be to maintain an independent mainstream browser. An independent mainstream browser is probably the most expensive category of software to create and to maintain excepting only foundational AI models.

"Independent" here means "not a fork of Chromium or Firefox". "Mainstream" means "capable of correctly rendering the vast majority of web sites a typical person might want to visit".

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#887

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with no means of significant revenue generation. OpenAI will top $20 billion in ARR this year, which certainly seems like significant revenue generation. [1] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/06/sam-altman-says-openai-will-...

I can generate $20 billion in ARR this year too! I just need you to give me $100 billion and allow me to sell each of your dollars for 0.2 dollars.

Exactly, so you can't generate a cent of revenue. OpenAI got millions of people to buy a $20/mo subscription. You couldn't.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#888

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the first example sigmoid10 gave of a company that can't do software was Microsoft .

Yeah I'm not convinced Microsoft can do software anymore. I think they're a shambling mess of a zombie software company with enough market entropy to keep going for a long time.

The prosecution presents windows 11 as evidence that Microsoft can’t do software. Actually that’s it, that’s the entirety of the case.

The prosecution rests.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#889

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the fact they had to resort to forking Chrome because they couldn’t engineer a browser folks wanted to use is pretty telling.

I don't think that tells us anything. Maintaining a web browser requires about 1000 full-time developers (about the size of the Chrome team at Google) i.e., about $400 million a year. Why would Microsoft incur that cost when Chromium is available under a license that allows Microsoft to do whatever it wants with it?

They did incur that cost… for decades. They were in a position where their customers were literally forced to use their product and they still couldn’t create something people wanted to use.

Potentially these last two points are related.

Re: OpenAI declares 'code red' as Google catches up in AI race

#890
post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect some of the downvoters hate the idea of ads, which is understandable. But a lot of HN users use gmail, which has the same model. And there are plenty of paid email providers which seem far less popular (I use one). Ads didn't end up being a problem for most people provided they were kept independent of the content itself.

1. Gmail is free 2. I’ve never seen ads on the Gmail webapp (It sure does data collection)

1. Yes, we're also talking about ChatGPT's free plan here too.

Ads could fund more quota or bigger models for users who don't wish to pay (and/or just make it more sustainable)

Google will almost certainly be doing this with Gemini, and if ChatGPT can't offer as much it leaves an easy reason for people to switch.

2. It does have ads in the default interface, though they're quite unobtrusive. You might also have a blocker. But yes, I suspect their size allows them to provide it mildly "at a loss" to support their ads elsewhere.

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