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Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

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Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#61

Post by bigyabai »

jsheard wrote: post #14
jwitthuhn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rosetta 2 is going to be EOL'd within the next few years. A more permanent solution would certainly be welcome.

AIUI they intend to retire support for x86 macOS apps in a few years, but Rosetta will remain as a low-level component so that things like Crossover and Parallels can continue to work. Maybe not forever, but there's no immediate threat of it being EOL'ed. > Rosetta was designed to make the transition to Apple silicon easier, and we plan to make it available for the next two major macOS releases – through macOS 27 – a…

Yeah, that's not very reassuring.

You guys remember when you bought a computer and could run the software you wanted, independent of political motives? In perpetuity? Reading excuses like this makes me feel validated for cutting macOS out of my professional workflow. The concept of paying Apple to provide high-quality long term support only works if Apple does better than the free offerings. Free offerings that still run 32-bit libraries, run CUDA drivers and other things Apple arbitrarily flipped the switch on.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#62

Post by echelon »

roflcopter69 wrote: post #53
echelon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a geopolitical question. ARM is Western RISC is China / Eastern Valve is just trying to outflank Microsoft here. And they're doing a magnificent job of it. Microsoft has on at least half a dozen occasions tried to draw a box around Valve to control their attempts to grow beyond the platform. And moreover to keep gaming gravitas on Windows. Windows Store, ActiveX, Xbox, major acquisitions ... they've failed to…

> RISC is China / Eastern Imo this is a really strange characterization of RISC. I've never seen this before. I think you try to paint a misleading picture in bad faith, please consider this: - https://riscv.org/blog/how-nvidia-shipped-one-billion-risc-v... - https://tenstorrent.com/en/ip/risc-v-cpu - https://blog.westerndigital.com/risc-v-swerv-core-open-sourc... - https://www.sifive.com - ... - https://riscv.org/ab…

Sure, but that's orthogonal to geopolitics and intelligence.

US policy makers are actively attacking RISC-V and dissuading its use.

China has an increasingly large upper hand in the RISC-V ecosystem and can use that to remove Western surveillance and replace it with their own.

https://itif.org/publications/2024/07/19/the-us-china-tech-c...

https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2023/regarding-proposed-u...

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#63

Post by charcircuit »

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #37
charcircuit wrote: post #35

I thought for a moment from the title that Valve has finally started funding game developers to make content from SteamOS, but no, this is just another case where Valve pays some contractors for open source projects and force developers to foot the bill for verifying compatibility.

I'm sure those developers hate getting a larger install base for free.

It's not just a larger install base. Those users may require extra support, those users may tank your reviews, those users may have a worse looking game or one that crashes a lot that can result in reputational damage.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#64

Post by babypuncher »

reactordev wrote: post #54
ZiiS wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works in the sense it allows you to run the game; but it does not prevent cheating. Obviously, Window's kernel anti-cheet is also only partially effective anyway, but the point of open-source is to give you control which includes cheating if you want to. Linux's profiling is just too good; full well documented sources for all libraries and kernel, even the graphics are running through easier to understand translat…

These things do not prevent cheating at all. They are merely a remote control system that they can send instructions to look for known cheats. Cheating still exists and will always exist in online games. You can be clever and build a random memory allocator. You can get clever and watch for frozen struct members after a known set operation, what you can’t do is prevent all cheating. There’s device layer, driver layer…

> These things do not prevent cheating at all.

Yes they do. They don't stop all cheating, but they raise the barrier to entry which means fewer cheaters.

I don't like arguments that sound like "well you can't stop all crime so you may as well not even try"

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#65

Post by xpuente »

cpgxiii wrote: post #45
xpuente wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No: RISC is open ARM is closed. I suspect that many projects—such as BOOM—have stalled as a consequence of this situation. If it continues, the long-term impact will be highly detrimental for everyone involved, including stakeholders in Western countries.

RISC-V the ISA is open; RISC-V implementations need not be. There's no reason to believe that any truly high-performance implementations will be usefully open.

There are also many high-performance Chinese implementations that are open-source (e.g., XuanTie C910, XiangShan, etc.).

While achieving an open-core design comparable to Zen 5 is unlikely in the near term, a sustained open-source collaborative effort could, in the long run, significantly change the situation. For example, current versions of XiangShan are targeting ~20 SPECint 2006/GHz (early where at ~9).

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#66

Post by bertili »

PaulHoule wrote: post #2

Would love to see it on MacOS X -- Steam works great on my Mac Mini for the games it supports, would be great to see everything run on it.

Unfortunately, this will not happen. Even if they have it all working:

Above all, Apple wants to show that their hardware is awesome, especially because it really is. Running x86 games or compatibility layers even with great emulation will make that $3000 Mac look half decent at best, against a $1500 gaming laptop. Simply not the story Apple want to tell.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#67

Post by reactordev »

plufz wrote: post #59
reactordev wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These things do not prevent cheating at all. They are merely a remote control system that they can send instructions to look for known cheats. Cheating still exists and will always exist in online games. You can be clever and build a random memory allocator. You can get clever and watch for frozen struct members after a known set operation, what you can’t do is prevent all cheating. There’s device layer, driver layer…

That sounds like it does prevent cheating? But maybe doesn’t prevent ALL cheats. Or do you mean they work so poorly that it doesn’t make any difference at all?

I mean it works by someone saying look for DotaCheat4.exe and it searches for it. That’s basically it. Also if your engine has the ability to be hooked into (ahem, gta) it will detect that a process has been attached. It may do some memory scanning if they implemented the allocator from the sdk. What I’m saying is, it’s a crap shoot out there whether the devs did or not. Executives use it as a blanket as to not get sued. “We have anti-cheat”. They can claim it was “circumvented” or whatever. They are all garbage. BattleEye, EasyAntiCheat, Vanguard. If you don’t know, here LL giving a run down.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VtHlMTc8lR4&t=49s

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#68

Post by reactordev »

babypuncher wrote: post #64
reactordev wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These things do not prevent cheating at all. They are merely a remote control system that they can send instructions to look for known cheats. Cheating still exists and will always exist in online games. You can be clever and build a random memory allocator. You can get clever and watch for frozen struct members after a known set operation, what you can’t do is prevent all cheating. There’s device layer, driver layer…

> These things do not prevent cheating at all. Yes they do. They don't stop all cheating, but they raise the barrier to entry which means fewer cheaters. I don't like arguments that sound like "well you can't stop all crime so you may as well not even try"

Ok, they prevent known cheats that the company has found online behind some subscription site run in the basement in Jersey. True. They do raise the bar, but they aren’t the barrier.

Re: Valve reveals it’s the architect behind a push to bring Windows games to Arm

#69

Post by Marsymars »

jmkni wrote: post #29
ZiiS wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may have taken them a while, but it does now work fine.

Define 'fine'

I run WoA on my daily work laptop and everything I run other than some of the junky IT-pushed apps (outlook extension to report phishing, etc.) are ARM64-native and run as expected.
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