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IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

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Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, the fact they built such tooling might be why they're so sure it won't work. Don't get me wrong, I am incredibly not a fan of their entire product portfolio or business model (only Oracle really beats them out for "most hated enterprise technology company" for me), but these guys have tentacles just as deep into enterprises as Oracle and are coming up dry on the AI front. Their perspective shouldn't be i…

Millions of people like ChatGPT. No one liked Watson.

Apples and Oranges from an enterprise perspective, with the additional wrinkle that consumer tech is generally ad-supported (ugh) while Enterprise stuff is super-high margin and paid for in actual currency.

If you assume the napkin math is correct on the $800bn yearly needed to service interest rates on these CAPEX loans, then you’d need the collective revenue of the major players (OpenAI, Google, Anthropic, etc) to pull in as much revenue in a year as Apple, Alphabet, and Samsung combined.

Let’s assume OpenAI is responsible for much of this bill, say, $400bn. They’d need a very generous conversion rate of 24% for their monthly users (700m) to the Pro plan for an entire year to cover that bill, for one year. That’s a conversion rate better than anyone else in the XaaS world who markets to consumers and enterprises alike, and paints a picture of just how huge the spend from enterprises would need to be to subsidize consumer free usage.

And all of this is just for existing infrastructure. As a number of CEBros have pointed out recently (and us detractors have screamed about from the beginning), the current CAPEX on hardware is really only good for three to five years before it has to be replaced with newer kit at a larger cost. Nevermind the realities of shifting datacenter designs to capitalize on better power and cooling technologies to increase density that would require substantial facility refurbishment to support them in a potential future.

The math just doesn’t make sense if you’re the least bit skeptical.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#713

Despite the flashy title that's the first "sober" analysis from a CEO I read about the technology. While not even really news, it's also worth mentioning that the energy requirements are impossible to fulfill Also now using ChatGPT intensely since months for all kinds of tasks and having tried Claude etc. None of this is on par with a human. The code snippets are straight out of Stackoverflow...

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Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#714

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This is the exact kind of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place, and I'm not blaming you for it, it seems to be something all of us do to an extent. We don't look to Meta, who only a few years ago thought that the Metaverse would be the "next big thing" as an example of failure to identify the future, we look to IBM who made that mistake almost 30 years ago. Underestimating a technology seems to stic…

The amount of hate I've received here for similar statements is astonishing. What is even more astonishing is that it takes 3-rd grade math skills to work out that the current AI(even ignoring the fact that there is nothing intelligent about the current AI) costs are astronomical and they do not deliver on the promises and everyone is operating at wild loses. At the moment we are at "if you owe 100k to your bank, you…

I don't want to defend musk in any way but I think you are making a mistake there using him as an example because what boosted him quite a lot is that he actually delivered what he claimed. Always late but still earlier than anybody was guesstimating. And now he is completely spiraling but its a lot harder to lose a billion than to gain one so he persists and even gets richer. Plus his "fanatical" followers are poor. It just doesn't match the situation.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#716

What's the legal status of all this AI code?! Will it be likely that someone whose code was lifted as part of "learning" can sue?!

Anyone can sue for anything.

I’m not sure we want a world where anyone who learns from existing code is committing a tort.

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#717
post #590

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Would you mind sharing some of these projects? I've found Claude's usefulness is highly variable, though somewhat predictable. It can write `jq` filters flawlessly every time, whereas I would normally spend 30 minutes scanning docs because nobody memorizes `jq` syntax. And it can comb through server logs in every pod of my k8s clusters extremely fast. But it often struggles making quality code changes in a large code…

They really should have been supplying at least a week worth of readymade "projects" to every freelance AI promoter out there to demonstrate x9000 AI productivity gains for the skeptics. Because vibing the air about those gains without any evidence looks too shilly.

As opposed to ad hominems and handwave dismissals, which are highly credible?

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value is that we need a lot more software and now, because building software has gotten so much less time consuming, you can sell software to people that could/would not have paid for it previously at a different price point.

We don’t need more software, we need the right software implemented better. That’s not something LLMs can possibly give us because they’re fucking pachinko machines. Here’s a hint: Nobody should ever write a CRUD app, because nobody should ever have to write a CRUD app; that’s something that can be generated fully and deterministically (i.e. by a set of locally-executable heuristics, not a goddamn ocean-boiling LLM)…

I’m with you. Anyone writing in anything higher level than assembly, with anything less than the optimization work done by the demo scene, should feel great same.

Down with force-multiplying abstractions! Down with intermediate languages and CPU agnostic binaries! Down with libraries!

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value is that we need a lot more software and now, because building software has gotten so much less time consuming, you can sell software to people that could/would not have paid for it previously at a different price point.

But what we're getting is a flood of buggy, unoriginal crap.

Remind me when exactly it was that most software was bug-free and original? 1990? 1975?

Re: IBM CEO says there is 'no way' spending on AI data centers will pay off

#720
post #594

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> While not even really news, it's also worth mentioning that the energy requirements are impossible to fulfill If you believe this, you must also believe that global warming is unstoppable. OpenAI's energy costs are large compared to the current electricity market, but not so large compared to the current energy market. Environmentalists usually suggest that electrification - converting non-electrical energy to elec…

Imagine how big pile of trash as the current generation of graphics cards used for LLM training will get outdated. It will crash the hardware market (which is a good news for gamers)

A100’s are not suitable for gaming.
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