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The Junior Hiring Crisis

people-work.io

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Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#241

Post by asdfman123 »

hex4def6 wrote: post #14

> We used to have a training ground for junior engineers, but now AI is increasingly automating away that work. Both studies I referenced above cited the same thing - AI is getting good at automating junior work while only augmenting senior work. So the evidence doesn’t show that AI is going to replace everyone; it’s just removing the apprenticeship ladder. Was having a discussion the other day with someone, and we c…

They have this exact problem with scientific glassblowing, and it's been decades in the making. Manufacturing improvements now mean that you can buy almost everything from a factory, and only need experienced glassblowers for fancy, one-off stuff.

But that means there's no need for entry-level glassblowers, and everyone in the field with any significant experience is super old. The pipeline has been dead for a while now.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#242

Post by _carbyau_ »

crisdux wrote: post #220

It feels like there is a psyop going on. Blaming job loss and less entry level jobs on "AI". The real simple reason... Jobs are going overseas, many of them junior level jobs. They are laying off people and then hiring a proportional amount of people overseas. Why are folks falling for this AI nonsense?

Meh, multinational businesses are multinational.

They don't have to hire in any given country.

Given the current state of affairs in the US, I'd be moving the balance elsewhere too.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#243

Post by asdfman123 »

andrewmutz wrote: post #136
hex4def6 wrote: post #14

> We used to have a training ground for junior engineers, but now AI is increasingly automating away that work. Both studies I referenced above cited the same thing - AI is getting good at automating junior work while only augmenting senior work. So the evidence doesn’t show that AI is going to replace everyone; it’s just removing the apprenticeship ladder. Was having a discussion the other day with someone, and we c…

It's not helping that in the last 10 years a culture of job-hopping has taken over the tech industry. Average tenure at tech companies is often ~2 years and after that people job hop to increase compensation. It's clear why people do it (more pay) but it sets up bad incentives for the companies. Why would a company invest money in growing the technical skill set of an employee, just to have them leave as soon as they…

You have cause and effect reversed. Companies stopped training workers and giving them significant raises for experience, so we started job hopping.

Some genius MBA determined that people feel more rewarded by recognition and autonomy than pay, which is actually true. But it means that all the recognition and autonomy in the world won't make you stay if you can make 50% more somewhere else.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#244

Post by asdfman123 »

Octoth0rpe wrote: post #56

> The social contract between large companies and employees has been broken for years now. US companies are optimized for quarterly earnings, not long term investment in their employees. Going to throw out another anecdote here. At a company that a number of my friends work for (a fortune 50), they are currently making record profits that they loudly brag about during employee townhalls. They also are in the process…

IMO it's not risk so much as foregone conclusion. You can see the hopelessness in GenZ and (to a lesser extent) millennials.

But we only care about short term metrics now, so no one cares. They don't even care to develop the tools to understand it. It might as well not exist. Blame the young people and move on.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#245

Post by asdfman123 »

lordnacho wrote: post #134

I suspect this junior hiring crisis thing is linked to the ridiculous hoops people are put through to get a job these days. When I was starting, you were checked for potential as a trainee. In my case, options trading. They checked over that you could do some mental arithmetic, and that you had a superficial idea of what trading was about. Along with a degree from a fancy university, that was all that was needed. I d…

This is the replacement for credentialism, love it or hate it.

You don't need a fancy school to get into a top firm anymore. You have to master the hell out of the interview.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#246

Post by linsomniac »

lordnacho wrote: post #134

I suspect this junior hiring crisis thing is linked to the ridiculous hoops people are put through to get a job these days. When I was starting, you were checked for potential as a trainee. In my case, options trading. They checked over that you could do some mental arithmetic, and that you had a superficial idea of what trading was about. Along with a degree from a fancy university, that was all that was needed. I d…

>ridiculous hoops people are put through to get a job these days

I'm sure that's true in some areas, but our last hire I was shocked at the ridiculous lengths the applications would go to to avoid putting in even a minimum effort to apply for the job. Like the Van Halen brown M&M test, we put a line in the middle of the job advert saying "If you've read this, put your favorite color in at the top of your job application message. We had low double digits % of people who would do that.

Honestly, on our next hiring round, I think I'm going to make people fill out a google form to apply, and have any of our job posts say "Apply at " and completely ignoring any apps we get through Indeed or the like. We had a team of 3 people reviewing applications for an hour or two a day for a month and most of the responses were just human slop.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#247

Post by tschellenbach »

rybosworld wrote: post #156

It's not obvious to me that AI is the reason for the hiring slowdown. ChatGPT was pretty useless when it first released. It was neat that you could talk to it but I don't think it actually became a tool you could depend on (and even then, in a very limited way) until sometime in 2024. Basically: - the junior hiring slowdown started in 2022. - but LLM's have only really been useful in a work context starting around 20…

Tend to agree here. The slowdown here has more to do with the financial ecosystem. IE less capital available for some companies, higher salaries and a changed approach to work.

The AI wave didn't start yet. Will hit in 26/27

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#248

Post by _carbyau_ »

koakuma-chan wrote: post #146
ch4s3 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a weird take. There are plenty of ways to build a meaningful life that don't involve writing code or slinging emails and powerpoints for a living. The guy I call to do plumbing work has several kids and does fine for himself.

Chances are he smokes or gets drunk or beats his wife or any combination thereof, or other similar activities. This can be said about any person who works as a plumber, construction worker, or similar, their whole life. And I am not blaming them, this appears to be the sad reality and the nature of our society.

Uh, really no.

That is some hard stereotyping being generalised on a platform with worldwide reach. You may wish to rethink what led you to that statement.

Although, with that statement and others from you recently I'm guessing you have "lost your fucks and don't have any more to give" IE burnt out on it all.

Good luck, I hope you get to a place where you can not rely rely on shortcuts like stereotypes so much and have more energy to give to yourself and your life.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#249

Post by _keats »

daheza wrote: post #93
HaroldCindy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to develop new etiquette around submitting AI-generated code for review. Using AI for code generation is one thing, but asking other people review something that you neither wrote nor read is inconsiderate of their time.

I'm getting AI generated product requirements that they haven't read themselves. It is so frustrating. Random requirements like "this service must have a response time of 5s or less" - "A retry mechanism must be present". We have a specific SLA already for response time and the designs don't have a retry mechanism built. The bad product managers have become 10x worse because they just generate AI garbage to spray at…

Wow, this describes _exactly_ what I've started to see from some PMs.

Re: The Junior Hiring Crisis

#250

Post by Madmallard »

This is entirely due to sociopaths that stole trillions in assets from the general population then bought out law makers to not outlaw their blatant copyright infringement so they can make themselves richer with some self-proclaimed 'noble' aim.

The general population is being rapidly sacked as a 'necessary' expense of criminal elites.

No one should be happy about this.

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