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Ask HN: When Does a Startup Need Management?

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Re: Ask HN: When Does a Startup Need Management?

#11

Post by mkuhn »

tptacek wrote: post #9
mkuhn wrote: post #5

I think a StartUp needs management from the beginning. Maybe its because I'm a business student, but I think if there isn't someone with a perspective on strategy, finances, marketing and management in general the StartUp will fail because of lack of direction and the costs involved in changing direction later on (and I'm not saying it needs to be someone who has an MBA or something similar) You ask what someone with…

It hasn't been my experience that MBA-types, with training in "strategy", finances, marketing, and management, do a better job of running companies than engineers. The history of business is replete with examples of engineers, lawyers, authors, and designers running successful businesses. Take Apple, for instance. There's also plenty of examples of "business"-types coming in and fucking everything up. Start with Ars…

Exactly my point. That's what I tried to express with: and I'm not saying it needs to be someone who has an MBA or something similar

I just think that someone needs to keep an eye on the business perspective and take responsibility for those things related to it.

Re: Ask HN: When Does a Startup Need Management?

#12

Post by swombat »

"Manager" is such a vague term that it's hard to give any useful advice here.

I'm going to make an assumption that what you mean is not "product manager" or "project manager" or any other kind of specialised manager, but a "general manager", aka a managing director or CEO of some kind.

I read somewhere that start-ups go through 3 phases to become established companies:

1) Develop the product (build something that can be sold)

2) Sell the product (create a process of selling it that makes money)

3) Optimise the money-making process (i.e. squeeze every last drop out of that process).

You don't need a non-tech CEO before phase 2, but at that point, if your team is mostly technical, and don't want to learn a whole new field (sales), or feel that they won't get good at it quickly enough, then it might be worth bringing in a CEO with sales experience to help build your ability to sell the product. Selling is a difficult problem, as difficult as building a product, and putting an expert in the lead can make a difference.

Re: Ask HN: When Does a Startup Need Management?

#13

Post by russell »

As others have said, you dont need managers to do what you are doing. You probably do need executives, not managers, when you get to the point where you need serious skills outside of engineering.

HR, legal, administrative: just outsource it to an administrative firm.

Raising money: get a CEO. You will need to get one in the VC image. Make his remuneration dependent on the investment raised.

Sales: figure out your strategy first. Sales forces are expensive.

Engineering: probably needed if it's outside your area of expertise, say software for hardware guys. Then you want a doer, not a manager.

Re: Ask HN: When Does a Startup Need Management?

#14

Post by DaniFong »

I also work in alternative energy. My cofounder and I are physicists and the third principal is an electromechanical engineer.

My cofounder has management experience and technical/mathematical chops, and he's been a joy to work with. He has sort of taken a management role, ensuring that tasks are scheduled coherently, keeping the lines of communication open, and pinging sources for funds, parts, advice, etc. But we all have, to some extent.

So it can work. However, bringing in outside managers, especially at an early stage, can be hugely problematic. My advice is to nominate the best of you to take on that role, and grow into in gradually. If you're over your head for a specific reason, then bring in a manager, and measure their success by that metric.

Re: Ask HN: When Does a Startup Need Management?

#15

Post by albertsun »

mkuhn wrote: post #5

I think a StartUp needs management from the beginning. Maybe its because I'm a business student, but I think if there isn't someone with a perspective on strategy, finances, marketing and management in general the StartUp will fail because of lack of direction and the costs involved in changing direction later on (and I'm not saying it needs to be someone who has an MBA or something similar) You ask what someone with…

The problem is that at the early stages, the "business" guy will likely have nothing, or at least far less than the hackers, to do.

Re: Ask HN: When Does a Startup Need Management?

#16

Post by moe »

russell wrote: post #13

As others have said, you dont need managers to do what you are doing. You probably do need executives, not managers, when you get to the point where you need serious skills outside of engineering. HR, legal, administrative: just outsource it to an administrative firm. Raising money: get a CEO. You will need to get one in the VC image. Make his remuneration dependent on the investment raised. Sales: figure out your st…

Raising money: get a CEO. You will need to get one in the VC image. Make his remuneration dependent on the investment raised.

That one made me curious. You say that as if they came boxed off the shelf (best before 09/12, store dry). Where and how do you "get" a CEO?

Re: Ask HN: When Does a Startup Need Management?

#18

Post by macco »

A teacher for entrepreneurship sais to us, that you should not focus about organisation until you have 50 people working for you. But that does not mean that you don't need management. Actually you are doing managent when you are working on ideas. But if you feel you are not have time for your research then i would say it's time to get a partner/employee who focus on running the company and doing administrative work.

Re: Ask HN: When Does a Startup Need Management?

#19

Post by notauser »

eisenkr wrote: post #4

There's a negative stigma about "managers" in the startup world because the word manager is associated with pointy-haired bosses and TPS reports. A manager can, however, be a very positive force when the technical leads on a team are spending a lot of time on management related tasks like meeting with investors, doing financial projections, and revising the business plan. A manager can do these things to free up the…

When hiring a manager a lot of companies go wrong in thinking that that person needs to be _senior_ (hence bosses and TPS reports).

You can hire someone junior to add 'professional management' - by which I mean reporting, analysis, forecasting, planning and investment appraisal. They then feed these things into the senior decision makers in the same way as technical or design staff do.

These people are normally called 'management accountants' or 'project managers' or something similar.

For a startup hiring someone with an accounting degree and two or three years experience offers you the chance to:

- Get hold of someone bright who is disaffected with working for a big firm and driven to do something new, and do it well.

- Won't believe they have a god given right to tell you how to run your business, but _will_ have a solid understanding of the basic business techniques that offer a big return on investment.

- Can be given the opportunity to grow into a senior member of staff that really understands the business you are in.

That way you can treat it like hiring a designer. Hiring a (senior) manager is more like hiring a CTO - something to do only when you _want_ a more radical direction change.

Re: Ask HN: When Does a Startup Need Management?

#20

Post by plinkplonk »

The problem is not in having managers. As many posts here point out, someone has to do all that stuff anyway.

The problem arises when managers have more power than engineers. In large organizations, by default, managers have more pay, perks and power than even the seniormost engineer/hacker. Avoid this imbalance and you'll be fine.

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