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India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

reuters.com

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Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#441

Post by nephihaha »

amarant wrote: post #242
nephihaha wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mate, this isn't even remotely "nationalist". This stuff is being pushed across the world. Digital ID? The only people really desperate for it are our rulers.

How so? In Sweden we have digital ID and it's great! Super practical and I struggle to think of how it would be used to spy on citizens, given that it has the same legal protections as banks have regarding your account transactions etc. Like sure you could in theory see every document I've ever signed if you have a warrant for BankID servers, but you could probably glean most of that if you had a warrant for the bank…

The problem isn't where digital ID starts, it's where it ends. It will start by being benign enough, and end with the ability to cut off dissidents in an instant. I'm aware that some Swedes are already getting microchipped. If you want to be branded and tracked by the state, that is your choice... Don't force it on the rest of us.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#442

Post by lxgr »

komali2 wrote: post #280
phatfish wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like people want to hand over scans of their passport and/or driving license to random businesses again and again, every time the need to prove who they are; and have their ID documents littered in Outlook mailboxes or company file shares with zero permissions. Or be forced to install yet another ID app from a private service that requires you have an iPhone or "compatible" Android. The debate about this in the…

> What really is the Government going to do with a digital ID service that they can't do already? In 20 years, the UK suffers a terrorist attack just before an election, and then elects a ultra right wing government on a platform of "remigrating foreigners." You're a British born citizen but your mom fled from Iran in the 80s and immigrated to the UK. If you don't have digital ID, and the government decides to "remig…

I broadly agree on the theory of administrative friction increasing the resiliency of societies against non-democratic government action, but I wonder if that ship hasn't sailed with the digitziation of most governments: All that data is already present in some database, public or private (with the government able to coerce access in many cases).

So I get the historical aversion to IDs as the stepping stone of governments to gaining access to potentially democracy-subverting informational hazmat, but these days, I feel like the downsides of not having a ubiquitous and privacy-preserving ID scheme vastly outweigh the little bit of extra friction of it will ever add.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#443

Post by inglor_cz »

amarant wrote: post #242
nephihaha wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mate, this isn't even remotely "nationalist". This stuff is being pushed across the world. Digital ID? The only people really desperate for it are our rulers.

How so? In Sweden we have digital ID and it's great! Super practical and I struggle to think of how it would be used to spy on citizens, given that it has the same legal protections as banks have regarding your account transactions etc. Like sure you could in theory see every document I've ever signed if you have a warrant for BankID servers, but you could probably glean most of that if you had a warrant for the bank…

In CZ, we have a so-far-somewhat-nonintrusive digital identity that is mostly used to access government services.

Yet we already had an interesting situation which shows just how complicated trust is. Sberbank, the Russian bank, was slated to issue digital identity certifications in March 2022. Then Russia invaded Ukraine and Sberbank got booted out of the country before actually gaining that capability.

What if it was March 2021 instead? How would we treat signatures on documents verified by Sberbank a day before the invasion etc.? What if the content of that document was really suspicious? Etc.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#444

Post by hattimaTim »

tomhow wrote: post #365
hattimaTim wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please don't engage in nationalistic battle on HN. The guidelines ask us to be kind and to avoid flamebait and using HN for political battle. Please take a moment to read the guidelines and avoid this kind of thing when participating here https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Thank you. Will keep it in mind.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#445

Post by nephihaha »

yehat wrote: post #405
amarant wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? In Sweden we have digital ID and it's great! Super practical and I struggle to think of how it would be used to spy on citizens, given that it has the same legal protections as banks have regarding your account transactions etc. Like sure you could in theory see every document I've ever signed if you have a warrant for BankID servers, but you could probably glean most of that if you had a warrant for the bank…

Sweet how the OP is about something that exactly corresponds to what EU wants badly too - chat control - but you decide to talk about Digital ID. OK wait a bit more, then your beautiful DID will start making more sense.

It all amounts to the same thing, the use of tech to control the public.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#446

Post by lukan »

NebulaStorm456 wrote: post #437
lukan wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And the Islamic countries are more than happy to bend the knee to a superior white globalist monolith that doesn't like diversity of ideas." Have you ever spoken to people from islamic countries and about their views towards the west?

I was talking about the power structure rather than normal people

I see. You argue, that for example the Taliban in Afghanistan are happy to bend their knees "to a superior white globalist monolith"?

Also out of curiosity, does a person with a white skin counts as "normal people" to you?

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#447

Post by nephihaha »

p1dda wrote: post #403
amarant wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? In Sweden we have digital ID and it's great! Super practical and I struggle to think of how it would be used to spy on citizens, given that it has the same legal protections as banks have regarding your account transactions etc. Like sure you could in theory see every document I've ever signed if you have a warrant for BankID servers, but you could probably glean most of that if you had a warrant for the bank…

BankID isn't what they are proposing. Not in any way shape or form. Try learning about a topic before you make stupid comments like that.

Oh, that will come. It all comes from the same mentality.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#448

Post by oblio »

nephihaha wrote: post #441
amarant wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? In Sweden we have digital ID and it's great! Super practical and I struggle to think of how it would be used to spy on citizens, given that it has the same legal protections as banks have regarding your account transactions etc. Like sure you could in theory see every document I've ever signed if you have a warrant for BankID servers, but you could probably glean most of that if you had a warrant for the bank…

The problem isn't where digital ID starts, it's where it ends. It will start by being benign enough, and end with the ability to cut off dissidents in an instant. I'm aware that some Swedes are already getting microchipped. If you want to be branded and tracked by the state, that is your choice... Don't force it on the rest of us.

> I'm aware that some Swedes are already getting microchipped.

Source?

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#449

Post by nephihaha »

lxgr wrote: post #202
nephihaha wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mate, this isn't even remotely "nationalist". This stuff is being pushed across the world. Digital ID? The only people really desperate for it are our rulers.

The lack of digital ID is a huge problem in many domains and enables a lot of scams and crime in the first place. Requiring identification in situations that don't need it is where the problems start, but that's possible with analog IDs as well, and is often even worse there (since these provide neither security against digital copies, nor privacy, which digital ID can, e.g. via zero knowledge proofs).

The problem with digital ID is that it can be switched off in an instant. I was talking to some people in a strike picket line about this. They seemed unaware of it. Suddenly you would be unable to travel, pay your bills and access internet etc for doing the wrong thing.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#450

Post by nephihaha »

eru wrote: post #380
nephihaha wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mate, this isn't even remotely "nationalist". This stuff is being pushed across the world. Digital ID? The only people really desperate for it are our rulers.

> Mate, this isn't even remotely "nationalist". India's government is not termed 'nationalist' because of this one policy.

I was talking about this one policy. The mentality is not particular to India. The abuse of the so called Fourth Industrial Revolution is everywhere to see.
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