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Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

areweanticheatyet.com

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Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#411

Post by throw10920 »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #311
dmayle wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only actual problem with cheating is leaderboards. When you have accurate matchmaking, you will be playing against other players of a similar skill level. If you we're playing in single-player mode, it wouldn't bother you that some of the players were better than others. Whether the person you're playing against is as good as you because they have aim assist, while you have a 17g mouse and twitch reflexes shouldn…

At least in the world of chess (which has the OG matchmaking system, ELO), cheating is genuinely a problem. The problem is that it doesn't matter how good you are. You will not beat a computer. Ever. Playing against someone who is using a computer is just completely meaningless. Without cheating control, cheaters would dominate the upper echelons of the ELO ladder, and good players would constantly be running into th…

> Without cheating control, cheaters would dominate the upper echelons of the ELO ladder, and good players would constantly be running into them.

...and, even worse, if they ever got to the very top of the ladder and started only playing against other cheaters, then they'd actually weaken their cheats so that they could drop down in ranking to play against (and stomp) non-cheaters again, and/or find creative ways to make new accounts.

Cheaters ruin games. The fact that the GP is so deluded as to claim that "The only actual problem with cheating is leaderboards." suggests that they've never actually played a competitive matchmade game on a computer before.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#412

Post by zeroq »

Main problem with highly competitive games is that you can run them inside a container and have full access to memory.

Most games will share all the data with every client which makes it trivial to display positions of every enemy on the map. It's just convenient for developers.

In games like Tarkov, once you spawn in, your client gets all the information that possible - positions of players, their names, equipment, contents of every single container on the map.

Tarkov is not the best example, because the netcode is terrible, and the architecure is a joke - you can loot everything on the map with a keystroke, and kill anyone with another, but other games are not better.

Even in Valorant, which makes an extra effort to only send data relevant to the player - ie. data about player that you are about to see - you can use that to see around the corners.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#413

Post by throw10920 »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #266
LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

Absolutely! The entire narrative of "cheating" is a giant misdirect. People don't actually care about cheating, they care about fun . If a player is making the game less fun, it does not matter how . The real problem is that ~10 years ago major game studios decided to monopolize server hosting. This means that the responsibility of moderation is now in their hands. The only way this problem can ever be resolved is by…

> fascist

How are game studios "fascist"?

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#414

Post by throw10920 »

chownie wrote: post #243
hombre_fatal wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about everyone else?

Re-read the comment but with generosity in your heart? I don't think you need it explained.

> What about everyone else?

You didn't answer the GP's question. You talked about what you wanted.

The answer to their question is: the majority of people who play competitive matchmade games online have decided that they want anticheat, and disagree with you.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#415

Post by Hikikomori »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #313
Hikikomori wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cs2 and Valorant does this, but start sending positions around corners before they're visible.

Basic distance checking is doable, but any kind of "they're ducking behind a 2 feet wall in front of me" is going to be horrible to detect server side.

Both Valorant and cs have pretty simple geometry and low player count which helps a lot for a system like this. Can't really do for bigger outdoor games with buildings etc.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#416

Post by kartoffelsaft »

jsheard wrote: post #309
LMYahooTFY wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the reason. The reason it's necessary is because players want to be able to play with/against other players around the world. Matchmaking requires some form of anti-cheat. Running your own server as admin can't give you the degree of competitive global ranking that players enjoy today. And cheating is an arms race. It's just hacking. You either preserve game integrity or you're going to have cheaters.

> The reason it's necessary is because players want to be able to play with/against other players around the world. Matchmaking requires some form of anti-cheat. Running your own server as admin can't give you the degree of competitive global ranking that players enjoy today. Case in point, Counter Strike is a rare example of a popular game which supports both the "modern" matchmaking paradigm and the classic communi…

Counter Strike makes matchmaking far more prominent than community servers, so I don't think this is that good of an example. For a game like Team Fortress 2 where the options are presented more equally, It seems the players are closer to a 50/50 split. The reality is that most people follow the light patterns that get them in a game, which most modern multiplayer games make that matchmaking.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#417

Post by pjmlp »

simoncion wrote: post #380
pjmlp wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are still ignoring Linux, hence why Valve is using Proton, the validation they failed to convince studios to care, studios that happen to target systems like Android NDK, or use platform agnostic engines.

> They are still ignoring Linux, hence why Valve is using Proton... Eh, maybe? I'd put forth the notion that game devs might be caring how their game works on both Windows and Proton. That is, that they're still using the Microsoft-provided APIs to build their game, but care about how it runs on Linux just as much as how it runs on Windows.

Not really, otherwise you would be getting SteamOS native builds.

It is up to Valve to sort it up, they are the ones that care, otherwise they will need to pay Windows licenses, which is really what this is all about, while pretending to be some kind of white knights.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#418

Post by silon42 »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #265
hamdingers wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were not helpless if the admin wasn't on, votekick has existed for 25+ years. Believe it or not us old folks who played during this time had ways to address these issues.

Votekick still exists in modern games, too.

callvote insta_weapon 1

was my favorite in the Quake3A mod I played.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#419

Post by arp242 »

LanceH wrote: post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

Back in the "small communities on their own servers" people also cheated. It was never entirely clear who cheated and who was just good and/or lucky with plenty of false positive bans also. Nothing about this was "easy" in any way. Which is why anti-cheat tools like PunkBuster have been around for 25 years.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#420

Post by nottorp »

simoncion wrote: post #382
nottorp wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are a casual who doesn’t care about game integrity, you probably aren’t the target audience. Friendly reminder. 90% of games are not competitive multiplayer and don't need any anti cheat to be enjoyable. My main entertainment is video games and books (no TV) in equal proportions so I'm far from "casual". I play zero competitive multiplayer due to the "communities" being invariably toxic. Last time I played s…

Yeah. I've found a nearly 1:1 correlation between "Does it try hard to be 'competitive' or an 'e-sport'?" and "Is a huge section of the playerbase just godawful toxic assholes?". As the years ground on, I've learned to avoid games billing themselves as an "e-sport" or indicating that they are extremely focused on the "competitive" scene, unless there's something very compelling to offset the asshole players that will…

So all in all Linux gamers are nicer because the “games” requiring anti cheat are not available?

They also send better bug reports if you launch Linux in early access, there was this indie dev saying that a couple years ago.

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