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India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

reuters.com

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Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#101

Post by ivell »

alephnerd wrote: post #17
hparadiz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the Achilles heel of having a closed platform. Eventually the government dictates what's supposed to be in it.

Even an open platform would do nothing. If you are a suspect, your phone would be checked in person (India doesn't have the concept of the 4th Amendment, and police demanding physical access to your phone during a search is routine) and if you were using something like GrapheneOS, it would be used as evidence against you. Indian law enforcement has already used access to Signal and Telegram as circumstantial evidence…

> and it's a simple hop to create a similar circumstantial evidence trail with someone using GrapheneOS.

I think this is a bit exaggerated for effect. No one in India considers having a Linux laptop as being circumstantial evidence in case of a crime. Whereas having Tor installed would be.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#102

Post by [deleted] »

mc32 wrote: post #96
Kelteseth wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't find any context for your claim so here is some reddit comment: So it’s true 3,300 people were arrested for posts online. What they don’t tell you are the statistics or context. The actual law for these arrests covers EVERYTHING online. These arrests include those arrested for terrorism (if the planning/act of terror includes any online communication in the UK), threats of violence, racist abuse, hate speech…

Can you just imagine the amount of arrests we’d have in the US if simply saying really offensive things at officials was enough to get you arrested. Using Carlin’s dirty words against others you dislike or quoting passages from historical books should not warrant arrests.

[deleted]

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#103

Post by radicaldreamer »

pixelatedindex wrote: post #31
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #25

Do we have a breakdown of what this app actually does?

https://sancharsaathi.gov.in - Report fraud/scam calls and SMS directly from your phone. - Block or track lost/stolen phones by disabling their IMEI so they can’t be misused. - View all mobile numbers registered under your ID and report any unauthorized SIM cards. - Verify if a phone is genuine with an IMEI/device authenticity check. - Report telecom misuse, such as spoofed calls or suspicious international numbers.…

So a pretty transparent way to tie IMEI to someone's identity and track their location under the guise of "finding lost phones" and "checking your phone's authenticity"

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#104

Post by dietr1ch »

logram-llc wrote: post #73
lez wrote: post #60

It is happening, in spite many won't really deeply believe. Every day 33 brits are arrested for what they say online. It's happening, and it's time we say no. It's uncomfortable, but we need to do it en masse, right now. Do not buy backdoored hardware, help others get rid of the backdoors, use anonymous technology to organize protests. There has to be a line.

Do you have a source for the Brits being arrested?

Brits get arrested for even supporting peace, I don't feel I need to verify this claim.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DRkQRFdjWMm/

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#105

Post by doctorpangloss »

lez wrote: post #60

It is happening, in spite many won't really deeply believe. Every day 33 brits are arrested for what they say online. It's happening, and it's time we say no. It's uncomfortable, but we need to do it en masse, right now. Do not buy backdoored hardware, help others get rid of the backdoors, use anonymous technology to organize protests. There has to be a line.

the lowest resistance solution to e.g. cheating at school using ChatGPT will be spyware on kids' devices.

while nobody should be arrested for speech online, here on hacker news, people are downvoted for saying something unpopular (as opposed to whatever, i don't even know what the criteria is, but maybe it should be "toxic") all the time. you are preaching to the wrong audience, not the choir.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#106

Post by radicaldreamer »

greycol wrote: post #61
SilverElfin wrote: post #34

I assume that in the US, the major manufacturers of phones and their operating systems already have backdoors for national security reasons. I think back to the past leaks from Snowden regarding the PRISM program. That program specifically included Google and Apple cooperating with the government under the FISA Amendments Act of 2008. So while this state-owned cyber safety app is authoritarian, I wonder if it reflect…

I am not defending it's use but a secret program is a targeted program, you can't use it in sweeping arrests without parallel construction. Whereas with an openly existing program you can point out that someone has been talking to their friend about how to get abortion medication and arrest them. The real issue with 100% enforcement of law is it requires a society with differing values to not just agree on which laws…

Parallel construction is incredibly easy though with confidential informants and honeytraps/entrapment (for another crime, for example).

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#107

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ivell wrote: post #95
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple didn't leave China and neither it will leave India. India can and will survive without Apple They can both survive without each other. But neither is going to break the arrangement without a lot of pain. They have mutual leverage with each other, and that becomes particularly material when one stops treating India as a monolith. > India can and will survive without Apple. Though having it in the country would…

> Most people aren't content with merely surviving. I think you overestimate the importance of Apple to India. It is just a company. And actually not the biggest employer or most tax paying one either. Apple is not the only vendor in India and has also not the most sold phone.

> you overestimate the importance of Apple to India. It is just a company

If New Delhi wants to smite Apple it obviously can. That isn’t the question. It’s if Apple can bargain for a better deal. I think the answer is yes.

The starting point would be finding the fault lines between the folks in India arguing for this policy and those who don’t care or are hostile to it.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#108

Post by Waterluvian »

lez wrote: post #60

It is happening, in spite many won't really deeply believe. Every day 33 brits are arrested for what they say online. It's happening, and it's time we say no. It's uncomfortable, but we need to do it en masse, right now. Do not buy backdoored hardware, help others get rid of the backdoors, use anonymous technology to organize protests. There has to be a line.

The price of freedom will only go up. People can’t help but wait to buy at the last minute when it costs an arm and a leg.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#109

Post by [deleted] »

goku12 wrote: post #3
qwerty59 wrote: post #2

Very concerning. I will be suprised if companies like apple comply though.

As concerning as it is, this is just another addition to the pile of malware that a modern smartphone is. Everyone including SoC manufacturer, RF baseband manufacturer, OEM, OS developer, browser developer and app developers add their own opaque blobs, hidden executable rings, lockdown measures, attestation layers, telemetry, trojan apps, hidden permissions and more. We lost the game when we allowed these players to…

[deleted]

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#110

Post by mlmonkey »

radicaldreamer wrote: post #103
pixelatedindex wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://sancharsaathi.gov.in - Report fraud/scam calls and SMS directly from your phone. - Block or track lost/stolen phones by disabling their IMEI so they can’t be misused. - View all mobile numbers registered under your ID and report any unauthorized SIM cards. - Verify if a phone is genuine with an IMEI/device authenticity check. - Report telecom misuse, such as spoofed calls or suspicious international numbers.…

So a pretty transparent way to tie IMEI to someone's identity and track their location under the guise of "finding lost phones" and "checking your phone's authenticity"

IMEI is already tied to your identity. You need ID to buy a phone or a SIM.
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