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India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

reuters.com

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Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#61

Post by greycol »

SilverElfin wrote: post #34

I assume that in the US, the major manufacturers of phones and their operating systems already have backdoors for national security reasons. I think back to the past leaks from Snowden regarding the PRISM program. That program specifically included Google and Apple cooperating with the government under the FISA Amendments Act of 2008. So while this state-owned cyber safety app is authoritarian, I wonder if it reflect…

I am not defending it's use but a secret program is a targeted program, you can't use it in sweeping arrests without parallel construction. Whereas with an openly existing program you can point out that someone has been talking to their friend about how to get abortion medication and arrest them.

The real issue with 100% enforcement of law is it requires a society with differing values to not just agree on which laws exist but what just punishment is. Without leeway for differing social judgement or bifurcation.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#62

Post by thisisit »

__rito__ wrote: post #15

I wouldn’t venture in the direction that many here will take. I will point out that India have the highest number of victims of cyber-fraud. I personally know many people who have lost significant sums through social engineering attacks. The money is transferred to multiple mule accounts and physical cash is siphoned off to the fraudsters by the owners of those account. They choose helpless, illiterate, village dwell…

> I will point out that India have the highest number of victims of cyber-fraud

Combined with worst enforcement and investigation efforts to tackle this issue. The default resolution on a cyber crime report is : Fraudster's account is blocked and they are given a choice to plead forgiveness from the accuser. They often return the money in lieu of the complaint being rescinded. Then fraudster is free to con others. Fraudsters know this is a numbers game that is why they hit every morsel they can get a bite.

Worse yet people use the cyber crime provision to take revenge. People can file frivolous cases without proof and ge others account locked. Banks will treat you with disdain and police will tell you to settle privately too.

What about investigations you ask? Very few cases reach that level. Local police file the FIR and they don't even know what is "cyber" in cyber crime. Fraudsters can continue playing the numbers game.

So, yes it is easy to talk about victims when the policies are lacking. And then this high number of victims can be used as a crutch to push insecure apps on everyone's phones. The worst part of it? They will get data and still remain clueless and inept in solving the high number of cyber crimes.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#63

Post by crumpled »

roncesvalles wrote: post #56
marginalx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you trust the government to only use it for good purposes? and not to track people who may be protesting or belong to opposing political/religious/cultural views? We know based on historical pegasus complaints that this trust has to be earned and can't be given. There are lots of ways to solve for this, mandating that these companies own the identification process through their systems, report misuse, govern apps…

Automatic mistrust of the government is a pretty juvenile take. Yes there are tons of ways, and having OEMs preload an app is the easiest one in a country of 1.1B mobile connections.

> Automatic mistrust of the government is a pretty juvenile take.

This statement seems naive at best and manipulative at worst.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#65

Post by ivell »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #23
embedding-shape wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they actually have a choice? Usually with laws and orders from the government, you can't do much than either go with the flow, try to lobby against it afterwards, or straight up refuse and leave the market. Considering Apple's ties to India, I feel like Apple is unlikely to leave, so that really only leaves Apple with the first; comply and complain.

> Do they actually have a choice? Yes. Apple's revenues are half as much as the government of India's [1][2]. That's a resource advantage that gives Cupertino real leverage against New Delhi. [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2025/10/apple-reports-fourth-... $102.5bn / quarter [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_governmen... $827bn / year

Like any business Apple needs growth to satisfy the shareholders. New growth would come from India and China. Apple didn't leave China and neither it will leave India. India can and will survive without Apple. Though having it in the country would be good for optics.

The moment mobile companies locked down sideloading, ability to uninstall bundled software, etc., they made it impossible to argue techincally against bundled, uninstallable software from the government.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#68

Post by nosianu »

OutOfHere wrote: post #43
alephnerd wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be used as evidence that the person who has GrapheneOS on their phone is attempting to break the law. Telegram and Signal chats are often used as circumstantial evidence of malfeasance in Indian national security cases, so the jump to using GrapheneOS as evidence of malfesance is tiny.

FUD

"Cops in this country think everyone using a Google Pixel must be a drug dealer" (because of GrapheneOS)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44473694

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114784469162979608

> European authoritarians and their enablers in the media are misrepresenting GrapheneOS and even Pixel phones as if they're something for criminals. GrapheneOS is opposed to the mass surveillance police state these people want to impose on everyone.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#69

Post by nunobrito »

goku12 wrote: post #3
qwerty59 wrote: post #2

Very concerning. I will be suprised if companies like apple comply though.

As concerning as it is, this is just another addition to the pile of malware that a modern smartphone is. Everyone including SoC manufacturer, RF baseband manufacturer, OEM, OS developer, browser developer and app developers add their own opaque blobs, hidden executable rings, lockdown measures, attestation layers, telemetry, trojan apps, hidden permissions and more. We lost the game when we allowed these players to…

Good to see someone well-informed. There is a lot being on that topic, you are not alone.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#70

Post by hsuduebc2 »

djohnston wrote: post #26
rishabhaiover wrote: post #22

I'm shocked by people and state using the crutch of cyber crime or scams to push a totalitarian solution to a problem that is better solved by improved education and targeted campaigns against common security pitfalls. I abhor any decision that robs even a grain of my individual freedom.

I share your abhorrence but are you really shocked? "Think of the children", "Stop the terrorists," these have been the foundations for the erosion of personal liberty for the past thirty years.

It's actually much more older argument. Hurr durr muh children is so common in history yet so effective that this is beyond absurd.
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