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Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

areweanticheatyet.com

291–300 of 485 posts

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#291
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Custom lobbies don't meet the same need. That's for playing with your friends, or at least, people you vet yourself. Community servers are a sub-community in of themselves: people tend to play on the same servers on a regular basis, allowing you to build rapport, community norms, and have substantially more direct moderation than company-run servers. Yes, sometimes you run into power-tripping moderators. That comes w…

two or three months ago, I played a game that did exactly what you proposed, V-Rising, it have a server browser, I played a week with friend on a busy server. Then the server was gone for two weeks. When it was back, mosts of the bases were gone due to inactivity. That's the kind of things that were common too, maybe you forgot about it.

All the multiplayer games I play today are either community server based, or I exclusively interact with private lobbies.

My negative experiences with community servers represent a pretty short list. Sometimes servers die, but games die sometimes, too. That's obviously only an issue with persistent-state games, like Minecraft, but it's unfortunate when it happens. Can't say it was so frequent that it impacted my enjoyment of any games as a whole.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a big part of it is the stakes were just lower. There wasn't money and careers in it the same way there is with egaming now.

Are the stakes not still zero? Aren't like 99.9% of players not at all competitive in any meaningful sense basically by definition? Like if Counter-Strike has 1M active players, and you are in the 99.9%-ile, you are still only in the top 1,000. Do people watch the rank 1000 players? Are they making a career out of it? What fraction of the player-base thinks they are actually competitive vs. is just playing a game?

I actually think a big part of this anti-cheat push is just developers wanting their players to think something real is at stake. Yes we put a ton of effort into protecting your very important Elo score from hackers so you confidently sink hours into improving it.

If they would just let the cheaters win their way up the ranks, they could have their own little cheater lobbies and we wouldn’t have to deal with them.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#293

But can it run Crysis? No. Not on Linux :-( I actually really liked Crysis for its open maps where you can approach a goal using different tactics. It had a lot of flaws and I hated the alien ship along with everything after as it was way too linear. Though I really want to play it again but alas, no more Windows for me.

Actually, ProtonDB indicates Crysis runs just fine on Linux.

https://www.protondb.com/app/17300

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the reason. The reason it's necessary is because players want to be able to play with/against other players around the world. Matchmaking requires some form of anti-cheat. Running your own server as admin can't give you the degree of competitive global ranking that players enjoy today. And cheating is an arms race. It's just hacking. You either preserve game integrity or you're going to have cheaters.

People are still playing Battlefield 4 (2013) on user-hosted servers. Right now. The only way that "around the world" can be relevant is ping, and the best way to manage ping is by sorting a list of servers by ping. Cheating is an arms race that no one needs to participate in . Moderation was a perfectly good workaround until major game studios decided to monopolize server hosting.

What, 2000 players? 5000?

Moderating that game is multiple orders of magnitude off of major titles.

No Battlefield game is even in the top 100 of esports earnings.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unpopular opinion, but we would be better off with a single open trusted implementation of anti cheat (aka drm) which can attest whatever requirements are desired by the game is met. The only real problem is that it would likely be limited to approved kernel images and someone would need to own that validation and signing infrastructure, but you could imagine having multiple trusted entities have this role.

Kernel anticheat is not really effective because it can be circumvented on the hardware level, for example using direct memory access with a second computer and screen to show the hidden game state. Cheating is a meat space problem and there is no technical solution to it. Thats why in tournaments there are referees standing behind the players. Ultimately it comes down to checking if metrics like reaction speed are h…

> Kernel anticheat is not really effective because it can be circumvented on the hardware level, for example using direct memory access with a second computer and screen to show the hidden game state.

Incorrect. DMA (direct memory access) is and can be prevented [1] and detected [2].

[1] https://www.faceit.com/en/news/faceit-rollout-of-tpm-secure-...

[2] https://community.osr.com/t/detecting-pcie-dma-based-cheatin...

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#296
post #286
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are functionally equivalent for the player. The problem with player hosted servers is that it was very hard to get a fair and balanced competitive match, where now it's extremely common with matchmaking on servers hosted by the game company.

> The problem with player hosted servers is that it was very hard to get a fair and balanced competitive match Playing against overwhelming odds has its own kind of charm. I once spend days just sabotaging the top players on some gun game servers, only wining myself once or twice. Games against friends with various fun handicaps and flat out abuse of any knowledge you could gain from playing against the same people r…

This is something matchmaking games totally miss which keeps them from being truly competitive in the way sports or old games were: a competitive community. You need other players with known identities to compare yourself against on a consistent basis.

Of course, classic competitive institutions had problems as well (“he’s very competitive” is not necessarily a nice description of a person!), but they seemed more enjoyable that this matchmaking stuff.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#297
post #151

Amongst the discussion of rootkits and anti-cheat, I would like to add that part of the reason it is necessary is caused by the game companies that took away the standard method of playing multiplayer -- players running their own servers. It used to be pretty easy to just ban people from playing, now we're 100% reliant on their ability to do it. So we have anti-cheat which roots our computer, and still doesn't 100% s…

Interesting thing I noticed trying to play old versions of Call of Duty a year or two ago -- the oldest ones which supported hosted servers, there are still players, but once they switched to matchmaking either no one is playing or its so tiny you never get connected.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#298
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't the reason. The reason it's necessary is because players want to be able to play with/against other players around the world. Matchmaking requires some form of anti-cheat. Running your own server as admin can't give you the degree of competitive global ranking that players enjoy today. And cheating is an arms race. It's just hacking. You either preserve game integrity or you're going to have cheaters.

We lost a lot of other things as well. Like modding and especially maps. It doesn't matter how good the game developers are, someone out there is could make a better map. The studios took control of everything, and their answer is to rootkit our computers, and to buy more DLC if we want another map. Personally, I don't accept the premise that such studio control is necessary for me to have fun playing a game. I espec…

This has nothing to do with anti-cheat. I work on Rust and most servers are hosted by the community and there is a good modding+custom map scene. The game has an anti-cheat because it's a big target for cheaters.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#299
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the moment you accept data from the client as truth you've lost the battle already, everything else is just damage control. Loads of games have realized this and kept checking game rules on the serverside and reveal data on a need-to-know basis. This makes it nearly impossible for cheats to be made because anything you know you should know, and everythin you act is parsed by the backend according to rules alr…

This is not how it works, most games that take cheating seriously already have a gameserver where most of the gameplay logic happen. Doing everything server side does prevent cheating.

> Doing everything server side does prevent cheating.

No. Server side only protects against some types of cheats, such as telling the server that your bullet in an FPS is actually a grenade.

It cannot prevent snapping your aim to a target on screen.

Re: Games using anti-cheats and their compatibility with GNU/Linux or Wine/Proton

#300
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that any (currently realistic) cheat prevention is unbypassable is silly. The idea that anti-cheats don't make sense because they don't catch 100% of the cheaters is what's silly, who believes that? Not even the people writing these anti-cheats believe catching 100% of them are possible, why are you under the assumption that others think that's possible? If it removes 80% of the cheaters from the game, the…

> the experience goes from "Holy shit lets leave" to "Ok, bothersome, but fine", This is making those rootkit anitcheat mechanism work. If people will leave, cheaters will play only with cheaters - problem solved.

> If people will leave, cheaters will play only with cheaters - problem solved.

Yeah, but it's a bit like the ultimately solution to climate warming; getting rid of all humans on the planet. Fine, it solves the problem, but who is staying to enjoy the solution?

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