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AWS data centers' water use tied to spike in cancer and miscarriages in Oregon

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Re: AWS data centers' water use tied to spike in cancer and miscarriages in Oregon

#31
post #16
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air cooling doesn’t scale. Try having thousands of computers all in your room.

Well sure but why does it need to be open cycle and actually consume water? That’s the problem part, not internal water cooling.

Adding in an evaporative cooling tower almost doubles the efficiency so it costs almost half as much to cool a data center using cooling towers vs air cooled chillers alone.

Re: AWS data centers' water use tied to spike in cancer and miscarriages in Oregon

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or rather, a hypothesis disguised as an explanation. It ultimately said these nitrates come from farms, and this new datacenter is exacerbating it. The root cause is still the farms, though.

An explanation is just a theory that accounts for the facts. A hypothesis is a theory that accounts for the facts while also providing falsifiability and testability . They provide an explanation, not a hypothesis.

They didn't provide any accounting from facts. Did farms usage of nitrates increase? We don't know. Are there more or less farms? All we know is that they assert the datacenter now exists and since then nitrates have increased. It doesn't account for all the variables nor provide a likely explanation for how this could be true; it is only a possibility of many.

Re: AWS data centers' water use tied to spike in cancer and miscarriages in Oregon

#33

This article is misleading. The data centers role here was to evaporate a tiny bit of already polluted water and increase the concentration of the pollutant. The increase is estimated to be around .1% with reasonable assumptions. The primary driver of pollution was agriculture but the data centers can be attributed to .1% at most. Is it a big deal? Not in my opinion.

> .1% at most. Is it a big deal? Not in my opinion. Depends. .1% increase in the number of calories going into my body? Not a big deal. .1% increase in the number of radioactive particulates going into my body? Big deal.

Can you frame it into more concrete terms like how much more likely it is to cause harm? And put agriculture by side.

Re: AWS data centers' water use tied to spike in cancer and miscarriages in Oregon

#35

This article is misleading. The data centers role here was to evaporate a tiny bit of already polluted water and increase the concentration of the pollutant. The increase is estimated to be around .1% with reasonable assumptions. The primary driver of pollution was agriculture but the data centers can be attributed to .1% at most. Is it a big deal? Not in my opinion.

> .1% at most. Is it a big deal? Not in my opinion. Depends. .1% increase in the number of calories going into my body? Not a big deal. .1% increase in the number of radioactive particulates going into my body? Big deal.

>.1% increase in the number of radioactive particulates going into my body? Big deal.

So... a short flight? There's background radiation everywhere, and less radiation protection higher up.

Re: AWS data centers' water use tied to spike in cancer and miscarriages in Oregon

#36

This article is misleading. The data centers role here was to evaporate a tiny bit of already polluted water and increase the concentration of the pollutant. The increase is estimated to be around .1% with reasonable assumptions. The primary driver of pollution was agriculture but the data centers can be attributed to .1% at most. Is it a big deal? Not in my opinion.

> .1% at most. Is it a big deal? Not in my opinion. Depends. .1% increase in the number of calories going into my body? Not a big deal. .1% increase in the number of radioactive particulates going into my body? Big deal.

>.1% increase in the number of radioactive particulates going into my body? Big deal.

Why would that be a big deal? It is a .1% increase.

Re: AWS data centers' water use tied to spike in cancer and miscarriages in Oregon

#37
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .1% at most. Is it a big deal? Not in my opinion. Depends. .1% increase in the number of calories going into my body? Not a big deal. .1% increase in the number of radioactive particulates going into my body? Big deal.

>.1% increase in the number of radioactive particulates going into my body? Big deal. So... a short flight? There's background radiation everywhere, and less radiation protection higher up.

The increase during the flight is nowhere close to .1%, many many orders of magnitude more.

Re: AWS data centers' water use tied to spike in cancer and miscarriages in Oregon

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .1% at most. Is it a big deal? Not in my opinion. Depends. .1% increase in the number of calories going into my body? Not a big deal. .1% increase in the number of radioactive particulates going into my body? Big deal.

Can you frame it into more concrete terms like how much more likely it is to cause harm? And put agriculture by side.

The risk from nitrates is cumulative. .1% may not seem much, but it can be well be the trigger for enormous problems. My best guess is that the limit was already very close at its max of 10 mg/L (10 ppm) and the data center tipped the scale.

Maybe they're (ab)using the findings of the data centers to get better water treatment, maybe they could have done more effort themselves?

But of course money and laws are far more important than healthy citizens, so why do anything about it when you don't have to?

Companies kinda tend to forget that if there is nobody left to consume stuff, you're also out of business. Governments kinda tend to forget that if there is nobody left to pay the taxes, they're also out of business.

Re: AWS data centers' water use tied to spike in cancer and miscarriages in Oregon

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you frame it into more concrete terms like how much more likely it is to cause harm? And put agriculture by side.

The risk from nitrates is cumulative. .1% may not seem much, but it can be well be the trigger for enormous problems. My best guess is that the limit was already very close at its max of 10 mg/L (10 ppm) and the data center tipped the scale. Maybe they're (ab)using the findings of the data centers to get better water treatment, maybe they could have done more effort themselves? But of course money and laws are far mo…

Lets assume that .1% is cumulative, but so is the effect from agriculture which is 99.9%. Agriculture would affect the person 1000x than the data centre (if you accept the .1% figure). This sounds ridiculous so it is necessary to put it in concrete terms.

Re: AWS data centers' water use tied to spike in cancer and miscarriages in Oregon

#40
The comments here make you think about whether this is an issue or not. But, regardless, I wish that Amazon execs were literally shackled to their data centers. If they move to avoid taxation, like when Bezos moved to Florida, at least they would have to drag those data centers with them. If there truly are pollution issues, at least they can share that with their new neighbors. Bezos certainly seems to care about fitness, so if anyone can drag a data center that is shackled to his neck, it would be Bezos.
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