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Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

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Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#31

Here is something else you can do about it. By an older low mileage car. If we all did that the manufacturers would change tack soon enough

I did do this, but I also want a reasonable modern and safe car and in the EU, since 2018, that means a car with eCall. I have a 2017 that I will keep going as long as is economical, but after that, it will be nearly impossible to avoid these systems.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#32

Remove the antennas. Do not give in to the mirage of convenience. Use a stand alone generic GPS. Vehicle GPS devices are anti privacy for so many reasons. Listen to stored music from an SD card if terrestrial radio (NO SATELLITE). Did you know almost ALL late model cars can play a TURN YOUR PHONE OFF. Your phone does more than track you - the Bluetooth and wifi beacon scanners are always running. When you come across…

>TURN YOUR PHONE OFF. Your phone does more than track you - the Bluetooth and wifi beacon scanners are always running. When you come across another person, most phones track the intersection of your beacon with theirs making a new data point that compromises both individuals privacy. Now consider sitting at a stoplight; you and and the 10 phones around you have now correlated the time and position you were sitting there. The person jogging by with no phone(but a set of Bluetooth headphones) is also tracked by their Bluetooth signature. Terrifying.

All phones nowadays have bluetooth/wifi mac address randomization, so it's basically useless for tracking, not to mention google/apple conscripting every phone into a wardriving network will kill battery life. Moreover all this effort in avoiding being tracked doesn't really mean much when all cars have a very visible and unique identifier that's mandated by law (ie. license plate).

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#33

Remove the antennas. Do not give in to the mirage of convenience. Use a stand alone generic GPS. Vehicle GPS devices are anti privacy for so many reasons. Listen to stored music from an SD card if terrestrial radio (NO SATELLITE). Did you know almost ALL late model cars can play a TURN YOUR PHONE OFF. Your phone does more than track you - the Bluetooth and wifi beacon scanners are always running. When you come across…

Ok stop with the panicking.

What's wrong with GPS in vehicles? If it's not connected to the internet, there is no issue.

What's wrong with playing music from the phone on Bluetooth or Aux? Did you also know you can ride a horse instead of a car?

Bluetooth and WiFi isn't running if you turned them off. Bluetooth also isn't really used for tracking unless someone is looking for you or you're part of some service like AirTags.

> Ignore your car's complaints and error messages. Did you know Orange dash error lights are non critical?

What? Worse advice out there regarding cars.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#34
The car data collection story is concerning, but it's part of a broader pattern: credentials and personal data are scattered across dozens of services we interact with daily.

The automotive example shows how even "non-tech" products now collect and transmit data. Each service creates another attack surface, another set of credentials to manage, another potential breach vector.

What's frustrating is that breach response still falls on individuals. When one of these services gets compromised, it's users who have to scramble to change passwords across potentially hundreds of connected accounts. The "change your password" advice is good but wildly impractical at scale.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#35

Remove the antennas. Do not give in to the mirage of convenience. Use a stand alone generic GPS. Vehicle GPS devices are anti privacy for so many reasons. Listen to stored music from an SD card if terrestrial radio (NO SATELLITE). Did you know almost ALL late model cars can play a TURN YOUR PHONE OFF. Your phone does more than track you - the Bluetooth and wifi beacon scanners are always running. When you come across…

> Ignore your car's complaints and error messages. Did you know Orange dash error lights are non critical? "Tire pressure low" is one you should probably check out on a regular basis.

Yeah that's terrible advice. Learning to ignore safety warnings is an amazing way to wind up stranded or with a destroyed car because you decided to ignore a warning light

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#36

Remove the antennas. Do not give in to the mirage of convenience. Use a stand alone generic GPS. Vehicle GPS devices are anti privacy for so many reasons. Listen to stored music from an SD card if terrestrial radio (NO SATELLITE). Did you know almost ALL late model cars can play a TURN YOUR PHONE OFF. Your phone does more than track you - the Bluetooth and wifi beacon scanners are always running. When you come across…

> Ignore your car's complaints and error messages. Did you know Orange dash error lights are non critical? "Tire pressure low" is one you should probably check out on a regular basis.

it may be better to code out TPMS anyways. I had a BMW that wouldn't allow you to enter Sport/Sport+ when TPMS light was on, what a drag.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#37

No doubt about this one. But, how much are the ubiquitous ride-for-hire e-scooters spying on you, and everyone else on the street?

Those e-scooters are a red herring. Ring cameras on everyone's front door and automated license plate readers (ALPR) on police vehicles and Flock cameras throughout cities are bigger concerns in America. Flock is already known to assist the government surveilling protestors: - [CBP is monitoring US drivers and detaining those with suspicious travel patterns]( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45996860 ) - [How Cop…

The even worse part of Flock isn't that they cooperate with the government, it's that there is(or was) basically no security in the service. Cops from one state can/could use flock services from other states. A few cops got caught stalking via Flock.

Flock takes the "do nothing until forced to" mentality.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#38
post #9

Is there anything we can do about it short of avoiding new cars? Our legislators have proven unwilling to pass real privacy laws.

Moving to the EU becomes a more appealing option every day.

In the EU, eCall is mandatory and disabling it fails most roadworthiness checks and voids most insurance policies, so it doesn't help much.

Also, while the EU does (for now) have stronger privacy protections for citizens against corporate interests, the opposite is true in most EU countries for Government surveillance.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#40

A 2013 Chevy Volt has a camera on the dashboard pointed at the driver. The entertainment dashboard has a dozen communication options, including those for safety? Zealots and the unhinged will quickly comment no doubt, but for the rational citizens I ask, when was this normalized? Was it automakers emboldened by the acceptance of cell phone central record keeping?

"Safety" is a magic word like "god" was a thousand years ago. If you say it just right you can manufacture an excuse to do all sorts of stuff that'll clearly lead to bad stuff if left to run.

They undoubtably said things like "if it saves even one person from falling asleep at the wheel it's worth it" or something along those lines.

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