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Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

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Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#11
post #9

Is there anything we can do about it short of avoiding new cars? Our legislators have proven unwilling to pass real privacy laws.

Moving to the EU becomes a more appealing option every day.

Greetz from Germany, we have Chat Control now even though we've been trying to reject it for at least 3 years.

Autocracy is just everywhere these days, Noah get the boat.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#12
post #5

IIRC, Massachusetts passed a right-to-repair law a few years ago. Based upon the text of the law, all new cars purchased there have the spying disabled because they did not want to give up their proprietary info. There have been a lot of court cases about that law by the manufacturers, so I do not know the status at this point. So I wonder if that is still the case. If it is and an out of state person buys new there,…

Theoretically, that should be a catch-22, right? How would they know you're no longer in Massachusetts, without the spying enabled while within Massachusetts?

Because "spying" in this case means "sending data to the mothership."

It doesn't mean "the car's gps is disabled"

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#13

Is there anything we can do about it short of avoiding new cars? Our legislators have proven unwilling to pass real privacy laws.

Maybe there is a way to pollute the data? At least it makes data cleaning more expensive.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#14

Is there anything we can do about it short of avoiding new cars? Our legislators have proven unwilling to pass real privacy laws.

Yes - remove the telematics radio and GPS antennas. They are usually in the overhead console area around/behind the lighting and mirror controls.

In BMWs, the gps antenna is behind the upper lights, the telematics and V2V antenna is in the sharkfin(unplug it from underneath the headliner)

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#15
post #9

Is there anything we can do about it short of avoiding new cars? Our legislators have proven unwilling to pass real privacy laws.

Moving to the EU becomes a more appealing option every day.

No panacea here! Better in some points. In general privacy. OTOH many things are not afvancing.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#16

Is there anything we can do about it short of avoiding new cars? Our legislators have proven unwilling to pass real privacy laws.

Ride a bike.

I've never had a driver's licence, lived in a zillion countries; don't think I could do that in America though.

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#17
Remove the antennas. Do not give in to the mirage of convenience.

Use a stand alone generic GPS. Vehicle GPS devices are anti privacy for so many reasons.

Listen to stored music from an SD card if terrestrial radio (NO SATELLITE). Did you know almost ALL late model cars can play a TURN YOUR PHONE OFF. Your phone does more than track you - the Bluetooth and wifi beacon scanners are always running. When you come across another person, most phones track the intersection of your beacon with theirs making a new data point that compromises both individuals privacy. Now consider sitting at a stoplight; you and and the 10 phones around you have now correlated the time and position you were sitting there. The person jogging by with no phone(but a set of Bluetooth headphones) is also tracked by their Bluetooth signature. Terrifying.

Disable autonomous driving hardware by unplugging the cables from the interior cameras. If your car needs to see and feel you in order to do it's job, it's co-dependent; break up with it.

Ignore your car's complaints and error messages. Did you know Orange dash error lights are non critical?

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#18

Is there anything we can do about it short of avoiding new cars? Our legislators have proven unwilling to pass real privacy laws.

Yes - remove the telematics radio and GPS antennas. They are usually in the overhead console area around/behind the lighting and mirror controls. In BMWs, the gps antenna is behind the upper lights, the telematics and V2V antenna is in the sharkfin(unplug it from underneath the headliner)

In some seem to be in the fin antenna:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OqFdFO_STJ0

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#19
A 2013 Chevy Volt has a camera on the dashboard pointed at the driver. The entertainment dashboard has a dozen communication options, including those for safety? Zealots and the unhinged will quickly comment no doubt, but for the rational citizens I ask, when was this normalized? Was it automakers emboldened by the acceptance of cell phone central record keeping?

Re: Modern cars are spying on you. Here's what you can do about it

#20
My 2025 Mazda Miata has a CAN connected Telematics Control Unit that sends a bunch of data to Mazda on ignition off. Among this data is acceleration and velocity data along with coordinates sampled for where you were. It is also used as a gateway for the Mazda app to start your car, query your vehicle's tire pressure, etc. It is claimed that you can opt out of this by calling Mazda and being persistent.

The CAN traffic is unencrypted. It was pretty easy to MITM this module with a cheap arm Linux board and a can transceiver to enable writing a two way filter capable of blocking the traffic that didn't raise any DTCs (that I observed) and could be turned on/off by the user. I preferred this approach to complete disconnection of the module (which is noticeable via errors at the diagnostic port) or trying to faraday cage or disable the antennae on the TCU so it can't remotely send/receive. I can also turn off my module or completely remove it before I sell it.

I fear the next version of Miata will be an encrypted CAN like most other cars have moved to and even with my expertise I won't be able to access the latest safety features from new cars without surrendering what little privacy I've been able to claw back.

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