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Stop Pagination Now

slate.com

81–90 of 92 posts

Re: Stop Pagination Now

#81

As an Internet user, I generally find pagination just as annoying as everyone else here (and paginated slide shows deserve a special ring of hell just for them). BUT, from a web design perspective, there are actually some good reasons behind text pagination, the main three being: 1) It helps you keep your place -- you can bookmark one of the 15 pages to continue reading from later on, or forward to your friend ("chec…

This doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think it has anything to do with design at all.

If you really believed in 1, 2 & 3 then why start off saying you hate it too? And you think everyone else hates it too?

The reasons you give seem like building for the edge cases instead of the main use cases.

Also if this were the case they'd have ajaxified these articles long, long ago so it doesn't require a full page load to paginate to improve retention.

We all know why it's done, it's for more ad impressions.

Re: Stop Pagination Now

#82
post #21
post #10

>"Pagination persists because splitting a single-page article into two pages can, in theory, yield twice as many opportunities to display ads—though in practice it doesn’t because lots of readers never bother to click past the first page." As much as I hate it and would love to think that pagination is just a publication pipedream, it's not. Some online publications have spent (and will spend if they're interested in…

the A/B test of one of my clients (in the b2c vertical) showed (for their site with their users) that people clicked more pages (which was kinda expected), and stayed longer on the website overall - with pagination (instead of endless scrolling).

Paginating lists or paginating arbitrarily within long text content? There is a massive difference between the two.

Re: Stop Pagination Now

#83

As an Internet user, I generally find pagination just as annoying as everyone else here (and paginated slide shows deserve a special ring of hell just for them). BUT, from a web design perspective, there are actually some good reasons behind text pagination, the main three being: 1) It helps you keep your place -- you can bookmark one of the 15 pages to continue reading from later on, or forward to your friend ("chec…

This doesn't make much sense to me. I don't think it has anything to do with design at all. If you really believed in 1, 2 & 3 then why start off saying you hate it too? And you think everyone else hates it too? The reasons you give seem like building for the edge cases instead of the main use cases. Also if this were the case they'd have ajaxified these articles long, long ago so it doesn't require a full page load…

>If you really believed in 1, 2 & 3 then why start off saying you hate it too? And you think everyone else hates it too?

Saying s/he hates it doesn't make the other points wrong (I actually agree with them). The dislike for pagination might come from waiting for the page to load. It doesn't feel nice to see the whole page flash and wait for it to load again. It's a poor experience. If loading the next page is as quick as it is on Amazon's cloud reader, maybe people wouldn't hate pagination as much.

Re: Stop Pagination Now

#84

No, they should continue paginating because most readers will just click to the second page and Slate will increase their ad impressions. I'm sure that Slate has tested this and found it to be true. If there was something different they could do to increase ad views, they'd be doing that instead.

How is this down voted? Is it not a valid comment that could lead to a meaningful discussion? Stop being tree-hugging Communists, bros.

Re: Stop Pagination Now

#85

As an Internet user, I generally find pagination just as annoying as everyone else here (and paginated slide shows deserve a special ring of hell just for them). BUT, from a web design perspective, there are actually some good reasons behind text pagination, the main three being: 1) It helps you keep your place -- you can bookmark one of the 15 pages to continue reading from later on, or forward to your friend ("chec…

> 1) It helps you keep your place -- you can bookmark one of the 15 pages to continue reading from later on, or forward to your friend ("check out the third paragraph" instead of "84th paragraph"). Obviously, you'd never show a 100,000-word article on one page (except for printing). At some point, pagination is necessary. Where to draw the line is obviously depends on a multitude of factors.

Put permalinks next to sections headings and/or change the fragment in the url bar with javascript as the user scrolls. Links work, and no need for pagination

>2) Feeling like you're "in" the site, not in no-man's land. From a web design perspective, you always want people to be able to navigate easily to other parts of the site -- you want stuff in the sidebar, never be too far away from header/footer, etc. You don't want people to be in a narrow column of text, with total white on both sides and nothing else. (Obviously users might often prefer this, like I do, hence Instapaper etc., but other users also like to be able to skip around to the rest of the site easily once they decide this particular article isn't for them, etc.) Of course, "floating" sidebars, headers, etc. can help alleviate this, but this requires the sidebars to be very small, which is not always possible.

Use position: fixed (as you mention).Having submenus that expand on click alleviates the space constraints. You can also swap out content in your header or sidebar as the user scrolls (but please use tranitions, or you'll give everyone eyestrain).

> 3) "Chunking" large pieces of content is just a good thing. A huge wall of text is just no good from a usability or legibility standpoint. This, of course, is why articles are broken down into sentences, paragraphs, sections, parts, etc., so people "know where they are". Now I'll be the first to admit that paging is a particularly inelegant sledgehammer way of chunking, but when you're dealing with lots of articles of different lengths, formats, etc., it's a kind of lowest-common-denominator that is seen as better than nothing

What's wrong with section headings?

Re: Stop Pagination Now

#86

As an Internet user, I generally find pagination just as annoying as everyone else here (and paginated slide shows deserve a special ring of hell just for them). BUT, from a web design perspective, there are actually some good reasons behind text pagination, the main three being: 1) It helps you keep your place -- you can bookmark one of the 15 pages to continue reading from later on, or forward to your friend ("chec…

> 1) It helps you keep your place -- you can bookmark one of the 15 pages to continue reading from later on, or forward to your friend ("check out the third paragraph" instead of "84th paragraph"). Obviously, you'd never show a 100,000-word article on one page (except for printing). At some point, pagination is necessary. Where to draw the line is obviously depends on a multitude of factors. Put permalinks next to se…

I don't disagree with any of this, just that it's all a lot of work and isn't always necessarily more desirable.

A lot of users don't understand section permalinks, fragments. Position: fixed severely constrains your design possibilities, and swapping out content just involves a lot more design and programming. And section headings are great, but getting your CMS to implement a mini-table-of-contents at the top/bottom of each page may involve a lot of programming too, and changing editorial processes, etc.

That's why I called pagination a kind of lowest-common-denominator solution that isn't great, but works. Clever programming can come up with better solutions in many cases, but they can be a much bigger pain in the butt to implement well, and there are often much more important priorities.

Taking existing websites and just getting rid of pagination isn't necessarily always an improvement.

Re: Stop Pagination Now

#87

As an Internet user, I generally find pagination just as annoying as everyone else here (and paginated slide shows deserve a special ring of hell just for them). BUT, from a web design perspective, there are actually some good reasons behind text pagination, the main three being: 1) It helps you keep your place -- you can bookmark one of the 15 pages to continue reading from later on, or forward to your friend ("chec…

>you want stuff in the sidebar, never be too far away from header/footer, etc.

I hate to be contrary, but no, I really don't want anything in the sidebar, at least when it comes to a piece of text that requires a certain amount of concentration to consume. That's why it's actually easier to read something from, say, the new york review of books in a physical form then it is from the website; there's just too much potential distraction, full stop, while the physical page tends to be more focused, more clean, for whatever reason.

Anyway, I think it's ESR that does the best text/article presentation on the web, for example (http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/homesteading/cathedral-baza...)

Re: Stop Pagination Now

#89
post #40
post #34

What I don't really understand is how pagination gives more ad impressions in a way that simply adding more adverts into the text in a long page doesn't. If the goal is more ads, why not just put more ads on longer pages?

Maybe they pay to have their add on the top of the page? So adds further down would pay less?? Just guessing here..

I think that's probably true as it goes, even though adverts above the text are more easily ignored than adverts within the text. Funny old world.

Re: Stop Pagination Now

#90
Safari will automatically merge all pages into a single page, strip out the ads, and reformat the article using nice legible typography.

Is this fair to the publishers? No. But I'm glad a browser came up with a solution.

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