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Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

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Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#391

Post by vkou »

fwipsy wrote: post #252
wavemode wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not sustainable to sell a product that most people only buy because they were trying to buy something else (or because they're forced to for societal reasons). That sort of approach is exactly why "Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost" (as the title states)! People are wising up to the truth, and now it's harming the credibility of the system as a whole.

Colleges used to be much more affordable even though they covered liberal arts and engineering together. Are all colleges unaffordable? Do all colleges require engineering students to take liberal arts? Maybe this isn't universal, maybe it's just that prestigious colleges all have strong liberal arts programs, either out of tradition or because it's required for being seen as prestigious. Liberal arts courses arguabl…

> Do all colleges require engineering students to take liberal arts?

15 credit hours of liberal arts education isn't why college in the US is so expensive, and if one pays attention, they might even learn something from it.

If nothing else, you'll learn how to read and write.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#392

Post by lurk2 »

EgregiousCube wrote: post #203
parpfish wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reason (3) is social signaling. elite schools aren't only desirable because they set you up with big opportunities. they are the way for high-school overachievers to signal to everybody how smart and good they are. elite schools could probably make bank if they just sold a stamp-of-approval from their admissions committees that just said "you are smart enough to get admitted, but were not lucky enough to win the lott…

100%, but it's even worse than that. "X got into Stanford" is the new "X is a Stanford graduate" because of grade dilution - and admissions dilution has soured even the former.

There was a user here a few months ago trying to promote his startup. He was being somewhat obnoxious when people offered criticism so I looked him up and found he was some 21 year old kid. Profile read:

> Founder & CEO of Nitrility which is the world's first music licensing marketplace working with over a billion $ in assets from 80K rightsholders.

> Age 21 as of August, high school diploma (Rutgers Prep), college dropout (UIUC), grew up in Somerset NJ, 2 time founder with 1 exit at age 18, 2400 rated chess player, former top tennis player, Forbes Technology Council.

> Usually you will find me in NYC, LA, or SF.

The dropout thing struck me because it was such an obvious attempt to try to appear to be the Mark Zuckerberg style figure that this kid desperately wanted others to believe he was. I’ve been seeing a ton of these kids claiming to have had exits before they even graduated high school, and even though I know they’re lying, I’ve been browsing here long enough that I would probably have believed them if I hadn’t picked up on it being a social media trend.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#393

Post by apparent »

jghn wrote: post #301
wtetzner wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't a C in Harvard mean "average for a Harvard student"?

oh my sweet summer child. Harvard was one of the leaders of the charge in terms of grade inflation back 20ish years ago

Yeah, and they made a push to rein it in back in the early aughts. As with all things grade inflation, what goes down, must come back up. I'm sure we'll be back here in 20 years having the same conversation.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#394

Post by lurk2 »

RomanPushkin wrote: post #233

Don't forget it's free in some countries. My degree was 100% free. And don't tell me it wasn't. There has been a lot of free stuff in post-Soviet era. In Soviet Union people had more than most of the folks who are pretty much jobless and desperate now at the moment. My family gotten free 3br apartments from government. My mom and dad were high school teachers.

> And don't tell me it wasn't.

It wasn’t, other people paid for it.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#395

Post by roenxi »

lurk2 wrote: post #355
roenxi wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US military isn't that scary; the evidence to date is that it's ability to destroy counties ends somewhere around Iran's strength. The modelling I've seen is that any US-China war will take place in Asia and China will probably win it unless the US gets a lot of help (always possible). And the US has already been undermined by the likes of China, Russia and India and there isn't a lot they can do about it in the…

> the evidence to date is that it's ability to destroy counties ends somewhere around Iran's strength. Only if Geneva enters the equation. > the US has already been undermined by the likes of China, Russia and India What is India doing on this list?

India has been gently aligning [0, 1] with the Russia-China bloc that the US has been encouraging to form over the last couple of years. Nothing crazy but that looks like undermining the US to me. It certainly isn't supporting US policy and the US has been trying to pressure them over it without much success.

[0] https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/national/explained-ahead...

[1] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/9/16/india-joined-belaru...

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#396

Post by lurk2 »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #283
cherrycherry98 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing the government provides is free. It's paid for with taxes that are forcefully collected and would have been spent or invested privately otherwise. I'm not someone who's against taxes but it's a myth and propaganda that the government can just magically provide free stuff. I'm ok with the government providing things but I want them to be honest about what the costs are.

They are being honest, you're just being pedantic. The fact that everyone pays taxes which ultimately pay for e.g. socialized health care/insurance or college-level education doesn't alter the fact that for the person receiving it, said good comes with no invoice, which is a conventional meaning of "free". The fact that paying taxes is required of all members of the community that organizes, collects and distributes…

> The fact that paying taxes is required of all members of the community that organizes, collects and distributes resources in this way doesn't change the relationship between the person and the service at the point of service.

That’s irrelevant to the point the grandparent comment was making, which is that these resources don’t just fall out of the sky and that “I got it for free and I liked getting it for free,” isn’t a good basis for policy.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#397

Post by viccis »

DaSHacka wrote: post #370
viccis wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Nothing the government provides is free. Yes it is. "Free" doesn't mean "has no cost paid by anyone" and never has in these discussions. It means "at no cost to the student". Apologies if English isn't your first language.

> It means "at no cost to the student". and GP's whole point was that it is not at no cost to the student. Apologies if reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

The student does not participate in a transaction that involves paying money in exchange for education. Taxes are collected and allocated as seen fit by the state. Students and others pay their taxes, but taxes are not directly transactional.

Apologies if English isn't your first language.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#398

Post by pfdietz »

the_gipsy wrote: post #376
kiba wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America doesn't and shouldn't fight China or Russia alone, so I don't know why we're talking about that. Russia is basically on its way out as a military power. It can't even conquer Ukraine. As for China, you don't fight China alone. What do you think military bases in Japan are for? Anyway, for the world's sake, China shouldn't start a war, but sometime you just can't stop stupid.

America is on a isolation downward spiral. Russia will conquer Ukraine, any other prediction at this point is absurd. See point one, America is alone now, it will take decades to repair the damage.

Some would dispute the "downward" part there.

Not trying to be the world's policeman would allow tremendous downsizing of the military and its associated expense.

Decoupling and isolation is a very rational response if nuclear proliferation is going to accelerate, in order to avoid having entangling alliances pull the country into a nuclear equivalent of the first World War.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#399

Post by lurk2 »

viccis wrote: post #292
cherrycherry98 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing the government provides is free. It's paid for with taxes that are forcefully collected and would have been spent or invested privately otherwise. I'm not someone who's against taxes but it's a myth and propaganda that the government can just magically provide free stuff. I'm ok with the government providing things but I want them to be honest about what the costs are.

>Nothing the government provides is free. Yes it is. "Free" doesn't mean "has no cost paid by anyone" and never has in these discussions. It means "at no cost to the student". Apologies if English isn't your first language.

> "Free" doesn't mean "has no cost paid by anyone" and never has in these discussions.

Calling these programs “free” obfuscates the issue because there are people (even college-educated people) who genuinely believe the government can just make something appear from nothing; they genuinely don’t understand that the resources have to come from somewhere, which means someone else who does not necessarily benefit from the program pays for it now or those benefitting from the program have to pay for it later.

> Apologies if English isn't your first language.

I would encourage you to review the site guidelines. These kinds of quips are discouraged here.

Re: Americans no longer see four-year college degrees as worth the cost

#400

Post by stack_framer »

fzeroracer wrote: post #382
stack_framer wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seriously dropped out because you didn't like one class? No. The university added other "studies" courses to my requirements that contributed to my decision. After taking gender studies, I knew I could not tolerate the other "studies" courses the university was suddenly demanding—which were not required when I first started. > Which university The University of Utah > which year was this 2014 > what was your ma…

> One of our guest speakers was a man with autogynephilia—a man who derives sexual pleasure from dressing like a woman. > In a follow-up discussion, I committed the "sins" of referring to him as a man, and saying things like he is not a woman, and there are only two sexes. Now I definitely agree with the other poster that this sounds made up, or at the very least you are significantly embellishing the story in such a…

> you are significantly embellishing the story

The guy told us he was married, with children, and that he had a separate apartment where he "lived like a woman" most weekends. He lived that way because his wife didn't like it when he dressed like a woman around her. He said he was intensely aroused by wearing pantyhose and skirts, in particular.

That may sound "significantly embellished" to you, but I assure you it is not.

Regardless of what you, or anyone else here, would like to believe about my credibility, this was the beginning of why I personally no longer thought a college degree was worth the cost. I refused to spend another dollar of my hard-earned money sitting through courses where I was not allowed to openly debate the ideas being presented to me.

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