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Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

evanhahn.com

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Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#141

Post by MagicMoonlight »

surgical_fire wrote: post #38
limagnolia wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, there is. Basically, thats the default in most of the world. My recomendation if that is what you want to do, is to put a note in the readme and in LICENSE.txt that says "this project is copyright by me. If you want to use i, reach out to me and if I like you, I will give you a license". Then if you like someone, give them a written statement that you like them, and grant them permission to use your project(s),…

I sort of like this. I wonder if it is enforceable. "For my friends everything, for my enemies the law" software license.

Of course it is, that’s literally contract law. You’re agreeing a contract to licence them access with specific terms.

The reason they invented the standard licences is to avoid this cost and effort. Do you really want to write a 200 page legal contract for every user for software you’re giving away for free?

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#142

Post by MagicMoonlight »

Preventing the only people who will realistically use your work from using it is a pointless gesture.

If you’re not charging for it then who cares? I’d rather have people actually using it than have a super restrictive licence and an empty project.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#144

Post by surgical_fire »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #141
surgical_fire wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sort of like this. I wonder if it is enforceable. "For my friends everything, for my enemies the law" software license.

Of course it is, that’s literally contract law. You’re agreeing a contract to licence them access with specific terms. The reason they invented the standard licences is to avoid this cost and effort. Do you really want to write a 200 page legal contract for every user for software you’re giving away for free?

Is that the implication? I thought that the legal contract you mentioned was a standard document, basically the same for everyone that was licensed. But I am not s lawyer, and I don't pretend to be one.

It would be neat to have this licese codified (Like we have MIT, GPL, etc), with the proper incentives to "ask for open source access, if I lile you, you might get it". And, of course, a "contract" that gave licensees the open source benefits.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#145

Post by t0mas88 »

sirodoht wrote: post #14

Free software is about freedom. Restricting it from anyone means it's not free. There is no requirement that we must create free software but if it's called free I think it should always have the basic qualities of freedom; not only when it fits our purposes and our values.

It's a choice for the authors to make based on what type of free they believe in. I think free under MIT and GPL are two different philosophies on how you see "free".

MIT: free for anyone, do whatever you want

GPL: free if you also make your software free

AGPL: GPL but SaaS can't circumvent the requirement to make your software free

I see why principled open source proponents would select GPL or AGPL. They don't just want their code to be used freely by others, they also believe more software should be free and using GPL helps with that.

GPL restrictions don't make software under the GPL not "free" as in freedom. Just a different philosophy.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#147

Post by recursivecaveat »

Your best solution is I think simply proprietary or CC-BY-NC + maybe non-government, then just license it to whoever you want that emails you. Consider just not making infrastructure software with free labor if you don't want to fund megacorps, because they will be the primary benefactors. Consider also that anything you upload to the internet goes into the LLM funnel which leads back to them. It's funny if you sold guns, shovels, or even printers everyone would be very understanding if you expressed a desire to not support Russia or whatever. Once its printer drivers though its "The only thing we can say for sure about the nature of evil is that you're a bad actor".

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#148

Post by t0mas88 »

surgical_fire wrote: post #38
limagnolia wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, there is. Basically, thats the default in most of the world. My recomendation if that is what you want to do, is to put a note in the readme and in LICENSE.txt that says "this project is copyright by me. If you want to use i, reach out to me and if I like you, I will give you a license". Then if you like someone, give them a written statement that you like them, and grant them permission to use your project(s),…

I sort of like this. I wonder if it is enforceable. "For my friends everything, for my enemies the law" software license.

Why would it not be enforceable? If you own the copyright on your software anybody that wants to use it has to get a license from you. The traditional way is for you to sell those licenses for money, but you could also decide to give them away based on how much you like the buyer.

Or a hybrid, sell them, but refuse to sell to certain entities and discount up to 100% to others based on how much you like them.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#149

Post by sokoloff »

mejutoco wrote: post #140
awesome_dude wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this thinking that, in reality, there's no such thing as objectively 'good' or objectively 'bad' It's all context and timing. Almost everyone that will attack this idea will present actions that are loaded with context - murder, is killing when it's bad, self defence is killing when it's good. If you look at everything, and look at it's non-contextual action, then you can easily find contextually 'good' and co…

I think this is one of these cases where talking in abstract terms does not help people agree. What I am hearing is if you remove context (and timing, lets say it is part of context) then there is no good or bad. But who said to remove context? Arent we saying then there is good and bad depending on context? Many people, including myself, would agree in the abstract, while at the same time some situations being very…

How do you make good or bad resolvable? Is a piece of code being used by Tyson Foods okay? A vegetarian software engineer who contributed to the package might say “no, that use contributes to the killing of animals for food, which is bad.”

If you need to evaluate all the context to know whether a license is usable, it makes it extremely hard for “good guys” to use code under that license. (It’s generally very easy for “bad guys” to just use it quietly.)

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#150

Post by mpol »

awesome_dude wrote: post #117
nine_k wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is impossible to write a real "use for good, not evil" [1] license, because there's no formal, universally accepted notions of good and evil. While there are things that are universally considered good, or considered evil, the areas around them are large, nebulous, and are anything but clearly outlined. Hence legally avoiding the "anti-evil" license terms will always be a relatively easy option for a willing party…

I have this thinking that, in reality, there's no such thing as objectively 'good' or objectively 'bad' It's all context and timing. Almost everyone that will attack this idea will present actions that are loaded with context - murder, is killing when it's bad, self defence is killing when it's good. If you look at everything, and look at it's non-contextual action, then you can easily find contextually 'good' and co…

In classic times there was no general concept of good or evil. The question was about if something is fitting in its context. With the rise of Christianity came the general concept of good or bad.
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