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Bazzite: Operating System for Linux gaming

bazzite.gg

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Re: Bazzite: Operating System for Linux gaming

#161
post #132
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why people bring this up so much whenever a new Linux distro shows up. I think one of the coolest things about Linux is that normal people can feasibly roll a useful distro. How much of a longevity guarantee do you need from a distro that is used for gaming, of all things?

I’ve been running the same gaming setup for almost 10 years. Having to upgrade or change OS is a major thing. Don’t minimize longevity. Currently I literally can’t find the time to convert my drive from master boot record to GPT for Windows 11. I can’t imagine having to completely switch operating systems/distros because it just disappeared. Worrying if it will still be around is legitimate.

Sounds like you might be the perfect audience for consoles then. And here's the good news, that's the same audience SteamOS and Bazzite targets.

I am/was a big PC enthusiast but could no longer keep up with all the stuff due to real-life, eventually even gave up gaming for a few years as I just did not have the time.

The Nintendo Switch bought me back into (limited) gaming. I liked that I could just play from anywhere in short bursts, or could just hook it up to my TV and pick up the controller for longer sessions. The best part, I never had to worry about updates breaking things, or doing system maintenance - I could just power it on and jump straight into gaming. But I still missed my old PC games, especially playing games like Diablo II and Age of Empires.

When the Steam Deck came along, it changed everything. Well, technically I didn't get the Deck, I got a GPD Win Mini instead, and installed Bazzite on to it... but same thing. I get the same convenience as I had with the Switch, except now I had the added advantage of being able to play all my PC games (yes, all of them. No, I don't play games with nasty kernel anticheats).

Regarding your concern about Bazzite completely disappearing, the good news it it doesn't really matter. Since everything you customised lives on your home drive, all you need to do is backup your home drive, and that backs up everything you'd care about. You can use this same backup in Windows (Steam allows you to easily import a library from a different drive/folder) and your Pictures/Documents etc are basically the same folder layout as Windows. I actually ended up setting a triple-boot setup of Windows, Bazzite and CachyOS on my handheld, and they all point to the same Steam Library, same Documents etc. So not only do I have tripe redundancy, it shows how portable and migratable this stuff is.

Re: Bazzite: Operating System for Linux gaming

#163
post #50
post #21

As much as I love Bazzite at end of the day it's still a custom distro and every single day there is a chance they just close the project down and move on. Happened to so many distros in the past, this is not out of question. I’m not saying “big corporate” distros are better but personally I'd rather stick to something more mainline. Hopefully Valve will release a general version of SteamOS with Steam Machine coming…

People who are not new Linux users might prefer a distro which is part of the same "family" of distros they are already familiar with. Steam OS I believe is based on Arch. Bazzite is based on Fedora. Personally I have experience with Debian distros so if I wanted a gaming-focused distro I would pick maybe something like Pop OS.

I tried Pop before Bazzite on my PC back in April and maybe I’m just bad at Linux, but it was a pain in the ass for gaming at first boot. Bazzite ran Expedition 33 out the box. Didn’t have to download drivers, didn’t have to configure anything, it just worked.

There are limitations but if you want a gaming machine, bazzite is a no-brainer to me. Poo is very impressive but I just don’t want to fight my OS constantly when it comes to gaming.

Re: Bazzite: Operating System for Linux gaming

#164

Will hop over to one of these the day that the AAA multiplayer titles I want to play are supported. I know it's down to the anticheat, but I still wanna play 'em. Hopefully Valve are able to push that forward.

We can only hope Valve‘s new „console“ will hit the market strong so they have another levarage to push the studios to implement appropiate, linux compatible anti-cheat.

[deleted]

Re: Bazzite: Operating System for Linux gaming

#165

For anyone interested in some gaming benchmarks, Gamer's Nexus (a reputable source with good methodology) has some numbers here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovOx4_8ajZ8 Based on their results, it sounds like there's still quite a way to go Linux gaming/Proton (ie: very inconsistent frametimes on Nvidia hardware), but it's definitely been taking steps in the right direction.

> Based on their results...

Do note that they make it very, very, very clear that their results are preliminary, and while they've put a whole lot of work into setting up benchmarking on Linux, they're not at all sure that they've got it all correct.

> ie: very inconsistent frametimes on Nvidia hardware

Yeah, Nvidia on Linux for non-"compute" use has always been a terrible, godawful shitshow. Given Nvidia's recent and fairly-clear disinterest in the "selling graphics cards for people to play video games with" market, [0] I can't imagine things will get consistently better anytime in the near future. [1]

[0] Why sell that silicon to video gamers when you can sell it to cryptominers and -these days- "AI" companies for a much, much, much higher profit?

[1] I mean, it took them how many Windows driver revisions for them to release somewhat-non-garbage drivers for their spanking-new fancy-ass 5000-series cards? And Windows is the only consumer OS that they care about! For video game use, the Linux drivers are gonna be starved for development resources, and -unlike ATi/AMD's drivers- noone in the world can work on them but Nvidia.

Re: Bazzite: Operating System for Linux gaming

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems to be something gamedevs are not commonly testing, and perhaps difficult to defend against when a game is directly interacting with the GPU. I can guarantee you any gamedev worth his salt will have used alt-tab at some point in the game's development on windows. It's an incredibly common hotkey to use, and the devs very likely have multiple ides, notepads, image editing software running concurrently. You seem…

> I can guarantee you any gamedev worth his salt will have used alt-tab at some point in the game's development on windows. Not exactly a repeatable testing framework, that. > You seem to be trying really hard. I almost strained a typing finger! /s lol > Most devs are using cross platform graphics APIs. OpenGL/DirectX/Vulkan. Alt-tab breaking is likely an OS issue. All the OSes seem to suffer from it similarly. More…

Yea I don't know how you can consider something as not 'tested' without a testing framework behind it.

Re: Bazzite: Operating System for Linux gaming

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fork and remove this line: https://github.com/ublue-os/bazzite/blob/main/Containerfile#... Note that we remove rpm Firefox for security reasons. You do not want your browser to only update with your entire operating system.

Press "y" before linking to a Github file/line to ensure it stays accurate https://github.com/ublue-os/bazzite/blob/5e8f61a56ca3da02778...

I had no idea there was a hotkey for that. Thank you!

Re: Bazzite: Operating System for Linux gaming

#168
post #161
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been running the same gaming setup for almost 10 years. Having to upgrade or change OS is a major thing. Don’t minimize longevity. Currently I literally can’t find the time to convert my drive from master boot record to GPT for Windows 11. I can’t imagine having to completely switch operating systems/distros because it just disappeared. Worrying if it will still be around is legitimate.

Sounds like you might be the perfect audience for consoles then. And here's the good news, that's the same audience SteamOS and Bazzite targets. I am/was a big PC enthusiast but could no longer keep up with all the stuff due to real-life, eventually even gave up gaming for a few years as I just did not have the time. The Nintendo Switch bought me back into (limited) gaming. I liked that I could just play from anywher…

No consoles are an even worse solution. They’ve been through several generations of hardware iterations in the same amount of time.

Re: Bazzite: Operating System for Linux gaming

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can only hope Valve‘s new „console“ will hit the market strong so they have another levarage to push the studios to implement appropiate, linux compatible anti-cheat.

Anticheat doesn't need to be Linux compatible, it needs to move server-side.

It has been. It's been server-side for decades. It's common industry knowledge that the client can't have authority. But server-side anti cheat can't stop aimbots or wall hacks. Client side anti cheat isn't about stopping you from issuing "teleport me to here plz server" commands, it's about stopping people from reading and writing the game's memory/address space.

If you wanted to teleport (and the server was poorly implemented enough to let you) you could just intercept your network packets and add a "teleport plz" message. Real cheats in the wild used to work this way. However a wallhack will need to read the game's memory to know where players are.

What modern anti cheat software does is make it difficult for casual cheats to read/write the game's memory, and force more sophisticated cheats down detectable exploit paths. It's impossible to prevent someone from reading the memory on untrusted hardware, but you can make it difficult and detectable so you can minimize the number of cheaters and maximize the number you detect and ban.

Linux is incompatible with client anti-cheat because there is no security boundary that can't be sidestepped with a custom compiled kernel. Windows is Windows, with known APIs and ways to read process memory that can be monitored. Secure boot means only Microsoft's own built kernels can boot and you now have a meaningful security boundary. Monitor what kernel drivers are loaded and you can make it harder for cheaters to find ways in. Sure you can run in a VM, but you can also detect when it happens.

Sure we can just run with no client side anticheat at all (functionally what Linux always is unless you only run approved, signed kernels and distros with secure boot) but wallhacks and aimbots become trivial to implement. These can only really be detected server side with statistical analysis. I hope you don't ban too many innocent people trying to find all the cheaters that way.

Re: Bazzite: Operating System for Linux gaming

#170
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't every distro a custom distro, by definition? Anyways, I get that this is a "risk" to consider, but installing a new distro isn't so bad that it should prevent one from trying and using a currently extant distro if it works for them.

I'm not sure I'd define the atomic Fedora variants as "distros" in the traditional sense. This is a bit of an oversimplification, but Bazzite, Bluefin, etc, are basically just Dockerfiles that use Atomic Fedora as the base image. So you are basically getting a pre-built docker container that is "Fedora + various configs added on top", and then you are booting that docker image. Since it's just a container file, anyon…

Interesting. So Bazzite could be, theoretically, remade as just a NixOS configuration file.
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