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Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

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Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#251

Post by expedition32 »

vanviegen wrote: post #229
athrowaway3z wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has - just like the US - a generation of boomer senators and presidents in (voting) power for more than 2 decades at this point. In the coming decade, that will change. Hopefully for the better.

Well, at least in the Netherlands, that's not true. Our elected representatives have been rather.. volatile over the past decade. I liked the boomers better.

The Netherlands just elected the youngest prime minister ever. He and his hot Argentinian husbando is going to make Trump look very old and disgusting if he ever comes visiting again.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#252

Post by systemtest »

machomaster wrote: post #215
systemtest wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a EU citizen that moved to a different EU country: Yes please! I constantly need a VPN as some services from my old country are geo-blocked. And when I forget to disable the VPN to my old country I can't visit certain sites from my current country. I need two phone numbers as some services require a phone number from the country they operate out of. I'm talking banking, classifieds, insurance, municipal. I can't u…

Why should countries allow foreign influence - the voting in the most important elections in the country, by foreign citizens who didn't integrate enough to even get their citizenship? Participating in local elections is often allowed.

In the case of these two countries dual citizenship is not allowed. So for the rest of my life I will not be able to vote here. This isn’t about “not integrating enough”.

If someone has been living and working in a country for a long time that should be enough to let them vote in national elections, regardless of what citizenship they have.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#253

Post by octaane »

So, I'm going to chip in with a different perspective from that of some other commentators on here. The overwhelming majority of computers in the entire world, used by our entire species, have windows as their OS.

While I applaud the use of alternatives to windows and it's apps, universities teach it because it is what their graduates will use in the real world. Governments use it because while it has it's flaws, it mostly works and is a universal standard. It's the toyota of operating systems. The parts and manpower to repair it and use it are available everywhere, and it's cheap and reliable.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#254

Post by Razengan »

pbreit wrote: post #198
arianvanp wrote: post #194

I studied at Utrecht University and all the programming classes in the Bachelor were C#, Visual Studio, XNA, DirectX. Windows. Database class i had to learn in Proprietary Microsoft tools too. All Microsoft stuff. Sure nobody would complain if you did stuff on Linux but all the support by TAs and teachers was on Microsoft platforms only.. The Master was much better but the Bachelor basically was grooming people to be…

I've gone without Microsoft products for many years now. It's SOOOOO much better.

I went for a decade without using any Microsoft products until they bought GitHub

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#255

Post by systemtest »

machomaster wrote: post #214
econ wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having people vote who don't live in the country has always struck me as weird. If you are some place else for say a year or even 10 years it seems a reasonable topic for debate but longer?? Never pay taxes either???

Often the rule is that one gets the vote in local elections after living for some time, but only citizens can vote in national elections (Parlament, President). This makes sense. If you want to fully participate in a society, you should integrate and become a citizen.

I personally believe that voting should be based on residency, not citizenship.

If you live in the country you can vote. If you don’t live in the country you can’t vote. Simple.

No taxation without representation.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#256

Post by quamserena »

octaane wrote: post #253

So, I'm going to chip in with a different perspective from that of some other commentators on here. The overwhelming majority of computers in the entire world, used by our entire species, have windows as their OS. While I applaud the use of alternatives to windows and it's apps, universities teach it because it is what their graduates will use in the real world. Governments use it because while it has it's flaws, it…

I am in university currently and I run Linux, and the only thing that I have needed Windows for has been SolidWorks. Everything else has worked just fine. We’re actually provided Linux VMs because so much software development happens in Linux (or MacOS); you need to know *nix to be job-ready in CS. I’m not sure what world you live in.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#257

Post by systemtest »

econ wrote: post #182
systemtest wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a EU citizen that moved to a different EU country: Yes please! I constantly need a VPN as some services from my old country are geo-blocked. And when I forget to disable the VPN to my old country I can't visit certain sites from my current country. I need two phone numbers as some services require a phone number from the country they operate out of. I'm talking banking, classifieds, insurance, municipal. I can't u…

Having people vote who don't live in the country has always struck me as weird. If you are some place else for say a year or even 10 years it seems a reasonable topic for debate but longer?? Never pay taxes either???

Third generation Turkish immigrants vote for the Turkish elections despite never having set foot in Turkey because of the military draft.

Goes to show that voting based on a passport is silly.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#258

Post by pjmlp »

fph wrote: post #112
pjmlp wrote: post #46

Depends. Can they get rid of Typescript, npm, Github, VS, VSCode, .NET, C#, F#, C++ / DirectX, Next.js, vcpkg, Microsoft contributions to Java, Rust, and Linux kernel, on their students teaching materials? If they can switch to UNIX FOSS technologies with zero trace of Microsoft's money sponsorship, and hinder the students careers in specific job markets, then surely. People usually never look beyond getting rid of O…

Why should they get rid of the Linux kernel?

Because Microsoft contributions, including being one of the Rust on the kernel sponsors.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#259

Post by pjmlp »

breve wrote: post #143
pjmlp wrote: post #46

Depends. Can they get rid of Typescript, npm, Github, VS, VSCode, .NET, C#, F#, C++ / DirectX, Next.js, vcpkg, Microsoft contributions to Java, Rust, and Linux kernel, on their students teaching materials? If they can switch to UNIX FOSS technologies with zero trace of Microsoft's money sponsorship, and hinder the students careers in specific job markets, then surely. People usually never look beyond getting rid of O…

The problem is described in the first two sentences of the article: > "The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court suddenly couldn't access his email. According to Microsoft, that's because of US sanctions against the court's employees." Nothing you've listed relates to that. If American services and platforms have become unreliable and untrustworthy because the American government is erratic, then it's…

Yes it is, see my last sentence.

Without Windows developers, game studios using Windows, Visual Studio and DirectX, SteamOS would have no games.

Proton represents Valve's failure to make a business out of Steam OS native games.

Funny will be when Microsoft decides Proton is a relevant target to aim for, and shot down by all means necessary.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#260

Post by mbreese »

Closi wrote: post #246
tfourb wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father’s decidedly non-nerdy logistics consulting business with roughly 20 employees ran (and runs) on Mac OS since the founding of the company in the mid 1990s with my mom being the „IT team“. There are some situations where companies rely on certain compatibilities requiring windows. But most could do completely fine without, especially nowadays.

You can run a logistics consulting business without windows, but you will struggle without Excel and PowerPoint, and 365 with SharePoint is basically needed for collaboration in any consulting business. Im also a logistics consultant… try to parse a multi-million line orderlines extract in Google Sheets compared to excel. I’m also on Mac but to be honest it’s a challenge - there are still enough industry specific too…

Collaboration with Sharepoint is I think the biggest issue with M365. It’s impossible to figure out where a file is stored… on your hard drive? One drive? Teams? Sharepoint?

And the biggest problem I have is managing revisions with multiple editors. If I were talking to Microsoft about strategy, this would be the thing I’d suggest. I know it’s common to use Sharepoint for collaboration, but it’s such a Frankenstein’d system that it’s going to be a problem for everyone sooner or later.

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