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App Store Honour System

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Re: App Store Honour System

#11

Post by richardlblair »

dbezona wrote: post #6

It's really not that simple though. If you use your account to download the app on your friend's device, the download is still associated with your account, not your friend's. Any subsequent attempts to update, restore, etc. that app will require entering your account credentials. I can't imagine there are enough people dealing with that hassle to material effect sales.

The whole updating/upgrading argument can be made for all software. Many pirated versions of operating systems and major software suites can't be updated, but this doesn't stop a huge number of people from pirating it (Windows, Office, and Photoshop to name a few).

There are plenty of apps on the app store where all you have to do is zip up the application's directory and send it to a friend. This means that you don't even need to log into your account on their Mac. All you have to do is install the update, zip it, and toss it in dropbox or send it in an e-mail.

This is a gaping hole in Apple's infrastructure. While circumventing piracy completely is impossible, it really shouldn't be this simple either.

Re: App Store Honour System

#12

Post by arrrg »

jmduke wrote: post #3

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this be blocked by device authorization limitations (5 per account)? For instance, I have a PC, a Macbook Air, iPad, and iPhone; those take up four of the five authorizations. I could theoretically then spend this last one on the friend, sure -- but I'm fairly confident that devices can only be linked with one account at a time. Furthermore, I'd argue that this issue would only b…

For personal use, you can install apps on all Macs you own or control. There is no limitation in the number of Macs. Presumably installing an app for a friend could also be a legal use – since you control that Mac as demonstrated by logging in.

Even when there was a number limit, it never crossed the PC–iPod barrier. When music still had DRM you could play it on five PCs/Macs and an unlimited number of iPods.

Re: App Store Honour System

#13

Post by JimmaDaRustla »

Some may argue the fact that it is limited to the act of authorizing and installing which prevents the simple distribution of the application (if copying *.app doesn't work). But, this is even worse in a "re-distribution" kind of way - people who bought the software, can now leverage their account to resell the applications at a lower cost - the customer just needs to temporarily provide the computer for distribution of the apps/games.

I personally know of this KIND of thing happening, and their customers are delighted at their service.

Re: App Store Honour System

#14

Post by sksksk »

Ultimately does it matter?

As a developer, what's more important to you: more revenue or noone pirating your software?

I'd say it's possible (and I'd guess, probable) that for the vast majority of App developers, they get more net revenue from the increased exposure and ease of payment that the App store provides than they would get from trying to sell the software through their own channels.

Re: App Store Honour System

#15

Post by arrrg »

richardlblair wrote: post #11
dbezona wrote: post #6

It's really not that simple though. If you use your account to download the app on your friend's device, the download is still associated with your account, not your friend's. Any subsequent attempts to update, restore, etc. that app will require entering your account credentials. I can't imagine there are enough people dealing with that hassle to material effect sales.

The whole updating/upgrading argument can be made for all software. Many pirated versions of operating systems and major software suites can't be updated, but this doesn't stop a huge number of people from pirating it (Windows, Office, and Photoshop to name a few). There are plenty of apps on the app store where all you have to do is zip up the application's directory and send it to a friend. This means that you don'…

I’m pretty sure that “gaping hole” is there by design and I’m happy about it.

Know that it exists and don’t use the App Store if you don’t like it. Simple as that.

Re: App Store Honour System

#16

Post by mikeash »

richardlblair wrote: post #11
dbezona wrote: post #6

It's really not that simple though. If you use your account to download the app on your friend's device, the download is still associated with your account, not your friend's. Any subsequent attempts to update, restore, etc. that app will require entering your account credentials. I can't imagine there are enough people dealing with that hassle to material effect sales.

The whole updating/upgrading argument can be made for all software. Many pirated versions of operating systems and major software suites can't be updated, but this doesn't stop a huge number of people from pirating it (Windows, Office, and Photoshop to name a few). There are plenty of apps on the app store where all you have to do is zip up the application's directory and send it to a friend. This means that you don'…

The apps where you can just zip them up and send them to a friend work that way because the authors neglected to put in any checks. That's not Apple's fault or doing in any way, and I think it's a red herring to even bring it up.

The ability to log in to a friend's computer and install your software on their system without limits may well be a "gaping hole", but is unrelated to apps that don't opt in to Apple's DRM.

Re: App Store Honour System

#17

Post by tehwebguy »

The entire basis for this article is a straw man:

> It’s fairly trivial for me to buy an application and simply stroll over to my friend’s computer, login using my credentials and download the application without much issue.

Sure, but you're not most App Store users. It's absolutely not trivial for most people to do this, but a huge pain in the ass.

Re: App Store Honour System

#18

Post by lucian1900 »

arrrg wrote: post #10

The music industry sells music on Apple’s iTunes Store with zero DRM†. I can send it to anyone and they can just play it. Just like with apps, I can also log in on a friend’s PC and re-download my music. Using the music industry as a counter-example in this article is hilariously misguided. Of all the digital stuff Apple sells, music is by far the easiest to pirate. — † No watermarks either. The tracks contain the Ap…

A watermark would be hard to spot by its very nature, so it could still exist.

Re: App Store Honour System

#19

Post by icebraining »

The music industry surely doesn’t share our mindset, they will just sue you into oblivion.

No, they won't, because it's impossible. They'll sue an extremely small proportion of the "pirates" and lose money in the process: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100713/17400810200.shtml

Ridiculous is thinking this is a better approach than not suing your customers.

Would it be impressive to be able to assert that every single copy of your software was paid for?

Yes, absolutely! What kind of web browser would one use?

Of course, if you mean a licensed instead of paid, then not, it's not. Here: http://www.debian.org/distrib/

Re: App Store Honour System

#20

Post by erikano »

lucian1900 wrote: post #18
arrrg wrote: post #10

The music industry sells music on Apple’s iTunes Store with zero DRM†. I can send it to anyone and they can just play it. Just like with apps, I can also log in on a friend’s PC and re-download my music. Using the music industry as a counter-example in this article is hilariously misguided. Of all the digital stuff Apple sells, music is by far the easiest to pirate. — † No watermarks either. The tracks contain the Ap…

A watermark would be hard to spot by its very nature, so it could still exist.

Two people could register accounts, using their own names, addresses and credit cards, from different computers and Internet connections, with different ISPs from some geographical locations sufficiently far apart (e.g. different countries). Then, they would buy the same stuff and strip the meta-data from the files. Next, they hash their files and compare the hashes, by only telling each other half of the hash.

E.g., person 1 would tell person 2 that the first 32 characters of the sha-256 hash (represented as a hexadecimal string) was "47905a1f67a826d1ca5321e3473266d9". Person 2 tells person 1 that the remaining 32 characters are "7616ac096cb069098bcd2e12b2ed0c0d".

In our scenario, these two people have no interest in tricking each other - so they use the files that they bought and tell the truth when stating their part of the hash. The company from which the files were bought are assumed to not know that these two people are working together, since they might otherwise serve the same watermark to the two people.

Edit: In fact, these "two people" could even be just one guy who traveled to a foreign country, purchased a brand new computer, a pre-payed card, went to a library and registered with bogus details, bought some files. Then, s/he traveled to another country where s/he did the same thing (new computer, pre-payed card, went to some Internet café and used other, bogus, details to buy the same files) and compared the hashes as described above.

Edit 2: Or, s/he could order the pre-payed cards online, bought from two separate resellers using bitcoins, and use two separate VPN-s (also paid for with bitcoins) from a computer that was assumed to not leak any sensitive information (because the computer was bought for this purpose, and therefore never used for anything that could be tied to him/her, s/he used an Open Source Operating System, and s/he switched out the NIC and the USB-stick used to boot the computer between each time), with each VPN session being made from different places sufficiently away from your home, and at times sufficiently far apart (3-6 months, maybe).

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