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Vsora Jotunn-8 5nm European inference chip

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Re: Vsora Jotunn-8 5nm European inference chip

#61

Post by jack_tripper »

Fnoord wrote: post #54
embedding-shape wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where do you see the negativity? First comment: "Looks expensive, I'm guessing" Second comment: "Probably vaporware" 6th comment: "They haven't disclosed any release date, Lots of chip startups start as this kind of vaporware" (they did literally just enter fabrication it seems) 10th comment: "So far, they just talk about it." Maybe it looks differently now, after 14 hours since the submission was made, but initial…

If it was submitted 14 hours ago that is start of night in Europe (the target market). So the 9-5 target market was mostly asleep, while USA was getting home from work. China was getting awake. If the article was submitted 5-6 hours earlier or 7-8 hours later, the outcome would've differed. Since it seems like a French company, I can think of various European customers who would be interested in using their hardware,…

>European defense industry is a goldmine right now, the sky is the limit.

Care to detail? Like I'm sure defense stocks and some arms manufacturing is up, but where I live I don't see the tech jobs market being boosted by defense spending.

Re: Vsora Jotunn-8 5nm European inference chip

#63

Post by yaantc »

AIorNot wrote: post #57

How does this compare to Euclyds product (another new EU AI chip company)? https://euclyd.ai/

I'm sorry I won't share much details, I don't think much is public on Vsora architecture and don't want to breach any NDA...

From their web page Euclyd is a "many small cores" accelerator. Doing good compilation toolchains for these to get efficient results is a hard problem, see many comments on compilers for AI in this thread.

Vsora approach is much more macroscopic, and differentiated. By this I mean I don't know anything quite like it. No sea of small cores, but several more beefy units. They're programmable, but don't look like a CPU: the HW/SW interface is at a higher level. A very hand-wavy analogy with storage would be block devices vs object storage, maybe. I'm sure more details will surface when real HW arrive.

Re: Vsora Jotunn-8 5nm European inference chip

#64

Post by Fnoord »

jack_tripper wrote: post #61
Fnoord wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was submitted 14 hours ago that is start of night in Europe (the target market). So the 9-5 target market was mostly asleep, while USA was getting home from work. China was getting awake. If the article was submitted 5-6 hours earlier or 7-8 hours later, the outcome would've differed. Since it seems like a French company, I can think of various European customers who would be interested in using their hardware,…

>European defense industry is a goldmine right now, the sky is the limit. Care to detail? Like I'm sure defense stocks and some arms manufacturing is up, but where I live I don't see the tech jobs market being boosted by defense spending.

Is up a lot, yes.

It all goes slowww. But it is moving forward. You would need a tough screening regardless. Defense is very picky about their contractors. But I can give a hint where the money comes from: 3,5% of BBP has to be for defense, and 1,5% for infra for defense. Many countries were at about 2% before (getting a bit higher due to geopolitical changes early 2022).

Also, think of funding for European tech companies. Governments are getting rid of Microsoft 365 in favor of Nextcloud. Especially Opencloud (Nextcloud, also European, formerly known as nextcloud-go) and Opendesk. It goes slow, partly because of regulations and each country goes for their own local contractor (an expert who speaks the native language).

The victim is going to be our health care system, and general social security system. Because we were able to afford this thanks to NATO, and NATO is now a paper tiger.

We're also not known for our VC culture, but here goes: https://www.cursor.tue.nl/nieuws/2025/november/week-4/surf-z... SURF has financed many FOSS projects in the past.

Desire to invest in USA has gone down because of Trump, and that money will partly flow to China, partly internal. On the short term, USA has incredible soft power over EU. But on the long term, not so much anymore.

Re: Vsora Jotunn-8 5nm European inference chip

#65

Post by DrNosferatu »

ano-ther wrote: post #17

I don’t get the negativity. The specs look impressive. It is always good to have competition. They announced tapeout in October with planned dev boards next year. Vaporware is when things don’t appear, not when they are on their way (it takes some time for hardware). It’s also strategically important for Europe to have its own supply. The current and last US administration have both threatened to limit supply of AI c…

The proof is in the pudding!

I want to believe: let's see that software stack working effectively.

Re: Vsora Jotunn-8 5nm European inference chip

#66

Post by embedding-shape »

postexitus wrote: post #59
embedding-shape wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who build landing pages for hardware startups are usually (almost always) not the same people who design and build the actual hardware, for better or worse. A lot of the times, it's a outsourced web design agency who receive a brief, often written by business people, and finally the website is reviewed by business people, with some feedback from technical people who complain about the graphs, accuracy and…

That's not an excuse. This company has more than a few handful of employees. Somebody saw those graphs without units, labels, tags and approved them. Have the CEO never opened their own webpage once and scrolled down?

Absolutely not, I agree! It's shameful, at the very best, and definitely should be fixed.

I was just trying to explain how "obvious" issues like that happen in the first place, not to excuse it, but to explain the likely background behind it.

Re: Vsora Jotunn-8 5nm European inference chip

#67

Post by embedding-shape »

jack_tripper wrote: post #60
embedding-shape wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where do you see the negativity? First comment: "Looks expensive, I'm guessing" Second comment: "Probably vaporware" 6th comment: "They haven't disclosed any release date, Lots of chip startups start as this kind of vaporware" (they did literally just enter fabrication it seems) 10th comment: "So far, they just talk about it." Maybe it looks differently now, after 14 hours since the submission was made, but initial…

Again, where's the negativity in the examples you posted? Those seem like valid points to me.

If a company says on their website "We'll have hardware ready this Q1 2026" and a commentator says "They haven't given any timelines anywhere, so most likely vaporware", then I'd consider that unfounded negativity, mostly because it was so trivial to see if that was true or not, probably took me about 2 minutes.

Re: Vsora Jotunn-8 5nm European inference chip

#68

Post by jack_tripper »

Fnoord wrote: post #64
jack_tripper wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>European defense industry is a goldmine right now, the sky is the limit. Care to detail? Like I'm sure defense stocks and some arms manufacturing is up, but where I live I don't see the tech jobs market being boosted by defense spending.

Is up a lot, yes. It all goes slowww. But it is moving forward. You would need a tough screening regardless. Defense is very picky about their contractors. But I can give a hint where the money comes from: 3,5% of BBP has to be for defense, and 1,5% for infra for defense. Many countries were at about 2% before (getting a bit higher due to geopolitical changes early 2022). Also, think of funding for European tech comp…

> Is up a lot, yes.

THen there's no trickle down happening.

>Desire to invest in USA has gone down because of Trump

Not true. Nokia just announced closing of its Infinera Munich HQ and relocating those activities to the US.

Re: Vsora Jotunn-8 5nm European inference chip

#69

Post by simondotau »

cardameu wrote: post #42
simondotau wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

need to create an account to reply to people like you who pretend to know. I do not promise anything, I am just giving facts.

In this context, "giving facts" is synonymous with promising.

I'm not pretending to know anything and that is exactly the point. I don't know anything. Nobody in here knows anything. It's all just claims. Words are cheap. Flashy websites are cheap. Press releases claiming tape-out are cheap. Until there is real silicon in the hands of real people free to benchmark it, it's indistinguishable from vaporware.

Actually, given how much money is floating around in the AI space, I think I wouldn't be too out of line saying that it's also indistinguishable from an investor scam. I'm not saying that this is, but what independent evidence disproves this hypothesis?

Re: Vsora Jotunn-8 5nm European inference chip

#70

Post by simondotau »

embedding-shape wrote: post #5
pclmulqdq wrote: post #3

It needs a "buy a card" link and a lot more architectural details. Tenstorrent is selling chips that are pretty weak, but will beat these guys if they don't get serious about sharing. Edit: It kind of looks like there's no silicon anywhere near production yet. Probably vaporware.

Nice wave they've been able to ride if it's vaporware, considering they're been at it for five years. Any guesses to why no one else seemingly see the obvious you see?

The company itself doesn't have to be vaporware in order for the product, as described, to be vaporware. And even if it's not true vaporware, there's still no independent evidence of anything. The design could end up being a bust, whether because of unexpected hardware limitations, or an immature software stack, or underwhelming thermals, or sheer economics.
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