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Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

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11–20 of 383 posts

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#11
post #3

AWS had announced a sovereign European cloud, probably to avoid a loss of business in the long term due to these initiatives. But it's questionable whether this would survive strong political pressure from the US government.

And it certainly would not survive strong political pressure from the EU and US governments. Local governments still can be adversely impacted.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#13
post #3

AWS had announced a sovereign European cloud, probably to avoid a loss of business in the long term due to these initiatives. But it's questionable whether this would survive strong political pressure from the US government.

I'm not sure I understand how an American company would be able to provide any service that could be "sovereign European".

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#14
post #4

Europe's failure to facilitate a competitive tech scene in the early 2000's (and even still ongoing today) will haunt them for decades. Such an enormous fumble that people still celebrate as a win.

EU is in a really tough situation. They're getting squeezed on all sides economically by USA and China while also facing a belligerent Russia on their eastern borders. And their internal politics and governance makes it very difficult to align in a direction that could enable them to start digging out of so much globalized dependence.

Yes. Unfortunately, the EU institutions have been designed during heyday of globalization and neoliberalism. So they are unable to adapt to (or even recognize) the end of it.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#15

The lock-in is around identity services, right? Servicing the jobs-to-be-done of the core applications is pretty straightforward I think. I'm not sure what keeps people locked in besides identity. Article doesn't really specify.

Familiarity, convenience and habit.

Familiarity: "I've used MS Word/Excel/Teams before so I can use it here"

Convenience: "We have MS Entra, might as well go all-in"

Habit: "We never really investigated alternatives, this is just what 'everyone' uses."

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#16
step 1. have syadmins run your stuff, recruit ITSM kids to help run it! We all learn and maintain our own hardware, software and get to poke at the fun internals of email, storage, etc.

step 2. cost savings by firing them all

step 3. we get locked in

step 4. oh no how did this happen

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#17
post #9
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Europe" is, unlike the US, not a single entity. Yes, we have European Union which helps a lot, but it is not complete (and certainly wasn't in the time when Microsofts and Googles of this world started), making that all-important initial scaling way more difficult than it is in the US.

> "Europe" is, unlike the US, not a single entity It really needs to be, though, that's kind of the crux of it. Federate or die off, it's time to get rid of old tribal thinking. We're all Europeans.

Tell that to the right-wing nutjobs who all want their "XIT"

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#18
post #13
post #3

AWS had announced a sovereign European cloud, probably to avoid a loss of business in the long term due to these initiatives. But it's questionable whether this would survive strong political pressure from the US government.

I'm not sure I understand how an American company would be able to provide any service that could be "sovereign European".

In theory Amazon could license the stack to a European Operator while having no operative access themselves.

I think this is already done in some cases altough the political reliability has not yet been tested.

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#19
post #7
post #3

AWS had announced a sovereign European cloud, probably to avoid a loss of business in the long term due to these initiatives. But it's questionable whether this would survive strong political pressure from the US government.

As long as there's any American ownership in the chain, this is not to be trusted. I'm assuming AWS wouldn't fully divest from this European business unit and split it off as a completely separate entity?

The US CLOUD Act says that if Amazon has the technical ability to access those machines, they must do so if the US government asks them to.

So, unless it’s a separate legal entity, and also shares no authentication, software deployment, or related infrastructure with the US part of Amazon, it’s either not providing sovereignty or is being offered in violation of US law.

It’s unclear to me if they’d have to comply with requests to (for example) backdoor their IAM service backend and push the binaries to Europe, or not. (I’m not a lawyer.)

Re: Can Dutch universities do without Microsoft?

#20
post #10

Obviously terrible seeing the US government harm its own international standing for no real gain, but if it results in Europe developing viable alternatives to American big tech services, that'd be fantastic.

The problem is that we already can provide an alternative, but we don't switch to them. Which might be even worse.
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