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Crypto investors face tax crackdown as 70% non-compliant

thepost.co.nz

61–70 of 92 posts

Re: Crypto investors face tax crackdown as 70% non-compliant

#61

In many countries in EU, real estate is the crypto. The only investment vehicle without capital gains tax. Maybe it's causing demographic catastrophe, but at least few people make a lot of money.

>> The only investment vehicle without capital gains tax

real estate? This is the most common asset that triggers a capital gain for most people.

Re: Crypto investors face tax crackdown as 70% non-compliant

#62

Denmark says hold my beer, as usual with taxes. Gains are taxed at 37-51%, as regular income. Losses can only be deducted at about 26%. You can be in loss from crypto trading and still owe taxes in DK. Yay!

that's wild - I guess they (knowingly or not) really want to discourage speculative and volatile investments!

Re: Crypto investors face tax crackdown as 70% non-compliant

#63

Denmark says hold my beer, as usual with taxes. Gains are taxed at 37-51%, as regular income. Losses can only be deducted at about 26%. You can be in loss from crypto trading and still owe taxes in DK. Yay!

Why even bother making money at all?

Re: Crypto investors face tax crackdown as 70% non-compliant

#64

In many countries in EU, real estate is the crypto. The only investment vehicle without capital gains tax. Maybe it's causing demographic catastrophe, but at least few people make a lot of money.

>> The only investment vehicle without capital gains tax real estate? This is the most common asset that triggers a capital gain for most people.

Let me introduce you the country of Poland. Other countries like e.g. Czechia tightened the rules but it's already too late looking at prices in Prague.

Re: Crypto investors face tax crackdown as 70% non-compliant

#65

Denmark says hold my beer, as usual with taxes. Gains are taxed at 37-51%, as regular income. Losses can only be deducted at about 26%. You can be in loss from crypto trading and still owe taxes in DK. Yay!

that's wild - I guess they (knowingly or not) really want to discourage speculative and volatile investments!

How buying Novo Nordisk or Maersk is a volatile investment? It's to keep peasants away from capital markets.

Re: Crypto investors face tax crackdown as 70% non-compliant

#66
post #3

> However, gains made from trading assets, including property, were taxed, and that caught crypto investors as the dominant reason for buying crypto assets is to later sell make a gain, rather than holding them as a long term asset like a home, or rental property. Unfortunately what constitutes “trading” vs “holding” is ill defined in NZ law. At least with shares you can make a case you’re holding them for dividends,…

I don't think this is specific case here; seems more like less sophisticated investors buying new products don't know that selling them triggers a capital gain at the time of the transaction, regardless of what they may do with the proceeds AFTER the transaction date. In a nuteshell: a successful investment and an unsuccessful investment will be treated as independent events at the time the transaction occurs.

It's also not immediately obvious to the uninitiated what should happen when you swap one asset for another, like when you trade DOGE for BTC. Or trade between BTC and a stablecoin, if you feel clever and think this avoids triggering capital gains.

Imho it's all just forex trading, but ask 3 tax authorities and you get at least 4 opinions so you really have to know the local rules

Re: Crypto investors face tax crackdown as 70% non-compliant

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You buy a bitcoin for 20,000. You sell it for 50,000. At this point you probably owe capital gains on 30,000. You then take the 30,000, use it to buy an NFT, and later sell the NFT for 0.01 (because NFT). At this point you have had gain of 30k and loss of 30k. Now, it's going to depend a lot on exactly when all this happened and in which jurisdiction, but in many countries you probably owe tax on the 30k.

Which jursidictions? Certainly not mine. If they happened in different years you'd have a tax in one year and an equivalently sized refund in another, but they'd balance out.

Where's that? In a lot of places, you'd get a capital loss on the loss, which can be offset against _future_ capital gains, but you won't get a refund if you have no capital gains to offset it against.

Re: Crypto investors face tax crackdown as 70% non-compliant

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America, the problem comes when the gain and the loss come in different years. If you make a big gain in 2024, but didn't pay taxes on that gain, then lose the money in 2025, they will come after you for failing to pay taxes in 2024 even though you no longer have the money in 2025. The lesson is to pay your taxes.

A bank will be happy to lend you the money to cover the spread since you have the collateral of a large tax refund in the future. It'll cost you a little bit of interest but it's generally not the catastrophe that people make it out to be.

Source? Typically capital losses can only be netted against capital gains the next year, and only against a small amount of income.

Re: Crypto investors face tax crackdown as 70% non-compliant

#69
post #5

Article seems to suggest if you make gains but lost them later you still need to pay tax on the gain?! That's strange..

In America, the problem comes when the gain and the loss come in different years. If you make a big gain in 2024, but didn't pay taxes on that gain, then lose the money in 2025, they will come after you for failing to pay taxes in 2024 even though you no longer have the money in 2025. The lesson is to pay your taxes.

Yes I understand the part about events across tax periods.. It's common everywhere, not aware of any jurisdiction that refunds.

Re: Crypto investors face tax crackdown as 70% non-compliant

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America, the problem comes when the gain and the loss come in different years. If you make a big gain in 2024, but didn't pay taxes on that gain, then lose the money in 2025, they will come after you for failing to pay taxes in 2024 even though you no longer have the money in 2025. The lesson is to pay your taxes.

A bank will be happy to lend you the money to cover the spread since you have the collateral of a large tax refund in the future. It'll cost you a little bit of interest but it's generally not the catastrophe that people make it out to be.

Not aware of any country that refunds if you lose money next year. Even carry forward tax losses have limits..
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