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Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

ziglang.org

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Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#301

Post by oaiey »

halJordan wrote: post #102
johnfn wrote: post #95

> it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress. > More importantly, Actions is created by monkeys This writing really does not reflect well on Zig. If you have technical issues with Github, fine: cite them. But leave ad ho…

The unfortunate truth is that this is where we are as a society. It doesn't reflect poorly on them. It reflects well. They're straightshooters. Theyre not afraid to speak candidly (your definition of candid may differ). They inject humor. You may not like it personally, but it doesn't reflects poorly even if it should. We're at the tail end of a long decline.

He shot the wrong entity.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#302

Post by testdelacc1 »

jimmyed wrote: post #112
johnfn wrote: post #95

> it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress. > More importantly, Actions is created by monkeys This writing really does not reflect well on Zig. If you have technical issues with Github, fine: cite them. But leave ad ho…

I agree that the article is strongly worded, and Andrew seems quite angry/frustrated. However, it also gives me flashbacks of how it was back in the golden days, when Linus was calling wannabe kernel contributors idiots who should have died because they "couldn't find their mothers tit to suck on". Having low patience is a quirk of our nerd culture, and now that the woke season has ended, it seems to be going back to…

Treating people poorly isn’t a quirk of nerd culture. Even Linus doesn’t think so.

> This is my reality. I am not an emotionally empathetic kind of person and that probably doesn't come as a big surprise to anybody. Least of all me. The fact that I then misread people and don't realize (for years) how badly I've judged a situation and contributed to an unprofessional environment is not good.

> This week people in our community confronted me about my lifetime of not understanding emotions. My flippant attacks in emails have been both unprofessional and uncalled for.

> Especially at times when I made it personal. In my quest for a better patch, this made sense to me. I know now this was not OK and I am truly sorry. The above is basically a long-winded way to get to the somewhat painful personal admission that hey, I need to change some of my behavior, and I want to apologize to the people that my personal behavior hurt and possibly drove away from kernel development entirely.

> I am going to take time off and get some assistance on how to understand people's emotions and respond appropriately.

And he walked the walk. He became better after that. Linux is a better project for it. But I suppose it did influence a generation of people in software who looked up to Linus and thought this is the correct way to treat people you perceive as beneath you.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#303

Post by _2d30 »

MarcelOlsz wrote: post #196
adrianN wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can express dissatisfaction and anger „naturally“ without calling people losers and monkeys.

I think it's a breath of fresh air. Don't want to be called out like this then stop fucking up.

[flagged]

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#304

Post by throwaway150 »

petersellers wrote: post #294
throwaway150 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surely you have your own line on what is or is not acceptable discourse. What is it? I do but I decline to share it here. I'm not going to shift this thread from what the author is doing on their website to my personal beliefs and boundaries! All I am saying is it is their project, their blog. They can be however much rude they want to be on their website. It's their website, their lines and their boundaries. Where…

> All I am saying is it is their project, their blog. They can be however much rude they want to be on their website. It's their website, their lines and their boundaries. That's funny, because if that is true he violated his own code of conduct: https://ziglang.org/code-of-conduct/#safe-constructive-only > I do but I decline to share it here The point is that everyone has different lines for what they consider to be…

> That's funny, because if that is true he violated his own code of conduct

Yes, he did. It is funny. I don't know why we need to talk endlessly about it. If you are bothered so much by this violation, file an official report on their issue tracker.

> The point is that everyone has different lines for what they consider to be "acceptable" or not. That is exactly the reason why codes of conduct exist

When I said I decline to share my lines and boundaries here, I meant just that. I didn't mean that I need a lecture on CoC from you. I know what CoCs are and why they exist. Thank you very much. I am not morality police. Neither are you.

My morality applies to myself. Andrew's morality applies to himself. But yeah... CoC may apply to him too. So you've got a good point. I don't know if the CoC applies to their website. If you know more and if it does, a violation of CoC should be reported on their issue tracker. If this is such an important topic for you, please do report the violation to them. That'd be fair.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#306

Post by mk89 »

wewewedxfgdf wrote: post #143
zdw wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this means that you have to be on a specific platform. GitHub as default/mandatory is a single point of failure for the entire tech industry. For an example of another language that avoids being entirely coupled into Github, Go has it's real code hosting and CI interaction on a Gerrit instance, with some sync back and forth to GitHub for a few items. The CI pain and operational blindness mentioned in the Zig…

Yeah but marketing matters for Zig because it's still struggling to get significant mindshare. Zig needs to behave more mainstream rather than less and technical gripes about the source hosting platform should not matter more than marketing.

Well maybe we are seeing this the wrong way. Maybe that's exactly the mindshare they want.

People who get angry when they see bad code, so much to call the developers lackeys and monkeys.

And an organization whose code base doesn't have to be on a mainstream server to attract exactly those who agree with this choice.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#307

Post by p-e-w »

lmm wrote: post #236
duped wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's helpful when people are being assholes to point to a document describing how they're being an asshole and to cut it out

In my experience it's the opposite of helpful, because it's actually a lot easier to reach consensus on whether someone's being an asshole than on whether they have violated the code in the document.

It’s a very helpful tool for establishing opaque power structures, because it allows those with real power to pretend that they are simply following some legalese document instead of doing as they please.

The fact that this behavior, which would violate most CoCs ever written, came from the top tells you everything you need to know.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#308

Post by hexbin010 »

quantummagic wrote: post #176
ericpruitt wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amusingly, this post violates Zig's own code of conduct: https://ziglang.org/code-of-conduct > Examples of behavior that contribute to creating a positive environment include: > - Using welcoming and inclusive language. > - Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences. > - Showing empathy towards others. > - Showing appreciation for others’ work.

Codes of conduct are perfunctory virtue signalling. Do we really need a unique set of "rules" posted on every project? They all sound like they were written by the same AI bot. That said, it's telling that the Zig leader can't even follow them. The rules should just be taken down.

A relic from the ZIRP era when people had time and job security to engage in politics and creating drama on Twitter instead of doing their job.

Ah the good old days!

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#309

Post by porker »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #265
dvrj101 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The takeaway for me is that the Zig project is led by people who are extremely immature and toxic. immature and toxic : welcome to every big tech , you don't want part of them either, right ?

if they call their employees monkeys, certainly. I think every big tech company is well aware of lawsuits regarding a hostile work environment, work place bullying, etc.. they all have company wide training on these topics. Having been in that situation before, if I even get a hint that I would be treated this way, I'm backing out of any interview. I won't say for no amount, but for no amount they would consider reas…

> if they call their employees monkeys, certainly.

It seems to have decreased in the last 10 years but calling us code-monkeys was a common derogatory reference to the software department. I didn't like being compared to a monkey randomly bashing a typewriter but that's how things were.

It was better than what everyone called HR.

Re: Migrating the main Zig repository from GitHub to Codeberg

#310

Post by rurban »

johnfn wrote: post #95

> it’s abundantly clear that the talented folks who used to work on the product have moved on to bigger and better things, with the remaining losers eager to inflict some kind of bloated, buggy JavaScript framework on us in the name of progress. > More importantly, Actions is created by monkeys This writing really does not reflect well on Zig. If you have technical issues with Github, fine: cite them. But leave ad ho…

He probably read too many Linux kernel mailinglist posts recently.

But I agree on the Devon Zuegel praise. Most of the good devs and managers are gone. Only brian for the git SHA-256 migration is still there I think, though he got no time finishing it.

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